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      Contact Us Broken   09/27/2016

      Users, It has come to our attention that the contact us feature on the site is broken.  Please do not use this feature to contact board admins.  Please go through normal channels.  If you are ignored there then assume your request was denied. Also if you try to email us that email address is pretty much ignored.  Also don't contact us to complain, ask for favors, donations, or any other thing that you may think would annoy us.  Nemesis

RevTestament

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About RevTestament

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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  1. If she were alive, she could regain fellowship, so I am not sure what you mean by being "out of our hands" even if she were alive. There obviously have been excommunicated members which regained fellowship although obviously that is not up to members of an internet board. I believe for the most part Fawn was trying to be honest, but history has not born out all her assertions. Nevertheless, I don't place her in the realm of say the Tanners. To a large degree Church history depends upon who you believe, and how one accepts and characterizes all the various versions of this history. Being that a lot of the history is hearsay, this process can allow people to paint various different portraits of the Church. She chose to attempt this for the founding leader of the restored church - a daunting task really - and one in which I don't believe she was entirely successful. I'm sure she viewed herself as a brave maverick, and her work is certainly more credible than say Pomeroy Tucker, but she does seem to have a certain bias which becomes evident especially in the light of hindsight and modern science.
  2. Then obviously, any readmission she should receive is out of our hands. I don't believe she ever recanted any of her book.
  3. I think prior societies also believed they totally understood the world and the cosmos... we see them as primitive. I wonder how God views man? even with his modern science which is still struggling to understand the nature of matter? I think there are reasons God has not subjected Himself to scientific analysis...don't you? Let's see. Can you scientifically test or measure love or happiness? What do you propose? Locking up two naked members of the opposite sex and pulling out a ruler? Do you believe there are extra-terrestrial aliens? Prove or disprove them please.
  4. Your characterizations are shall we say a little melodramatic. First, no one sent her to hell. I don't really know what kind of person Fawn Brodie is personally, but assuming she is a decent person, she probably won't spend an eternity in hell. Further, I believe some of her claims have for the most part been disproven. Unless she apologizes for those, and recants at least those portions of her work, no - her excommunication should not be "overturned." If she recants them and returns to the Church seeking readmittance, I would suppose the Church should consider it, but that is not "overturning" her excommunication. I believe it should stand as long as she stands by her book.
  5. Go right ahead and compare - I'm not a meso modelist. But you do make a good point that your model is talking about an area with a dense tropical jungle which would definitely slow travel. But here is another problem. The Book of Mormon specifically brings up a new food crop: corn. How about barley and wheat? Anything like that in Malay? There was definitely no corn. Mesoamerica - no barley or wheat that I know of.
  6. I agree that the Bible is more complete, but not "far superior." Scripture is scripture, and one scripture is not superior to another just because there is more of it. It may be fulfilled or no longer fully applicable, but that in itself can be extremely important. Showing all the prophecies fulfilled in the Bible goes to show there is a God who planned all this. He planned history, and knows what is going to happen. The Book of Mormon is entering this realm of prophecy now. I can think of several of its prophecies which have come true. For instance it mentions that the Church will be spread over all the earth, but will be few in number while the great whore held sway. 1 Nephi 14:12. This is a perfect prophecy of the present day Church despite Joseph Smith saying the Church would fill the earth. The Book of Mormon also makes a specific prophecy that the Gentiles would trample and scatter the Lamanites. This actually went into full swing only months after the Book of Mormon was published when under Andrew Jackson the US began a policy of disenfranchising the Natives - it became official policy and law. Many Natives lost their homes, and were scattered westward. There are more prophecies about to be fulfilled concerning the New Jerusalem, etc. The Book of Mormon is actually much more specific regarding certain biblical prophecies - leaving little room to misunderstand them.... even if they currently are. In that sense one might consider the Book of Mormon to be "superior." That is just a very subjective term. P.S. I'm looking at some of the biggest darn snowflakes I think I have ever seen right now - 3+ inches wide. Just thought I'd mention that snowflake.
  7. I will posit at least one geographical issue with the Malay setting. Your original Land of Nephi is very close to Zarahemla. The Book of Mormon talks about a 20-21 day travel to get to Zarahemla. Unless they are crawling that's about 350 miles to cover to get to Zarahemla. Your model puts these lands adjacent. and much closer - maybe 100 miles apart - which would be 5 miles per day of travel. That doesn't seem to make any geographical sense.
  8. These are only theoretical constructs needed to explain their theory of the big bang. If the universe did not begin in a big bang, which I am tending to believe at present, then one doesn't need dark energy and dark matter to explain why some galaxies are moving too slowly to be where they are - one just accepts they were not created in a big bang with all the other galaxies. One also does not then need to worry about how all the matter in the universe could be stuffed into a singularity so massive that no matter or light could escape from it - yet did, etc, etc.
  9. I grew up in the south, and joined the LDS Church when I was 13. I don't think I told my Episcopalian friends. Anyway, I continued to have friends at school and in my neighborhood, and noticed little difference there. My wife on the other hand went to a Pentecostal school for a short while, and they treated her terribly - like she had the plague almost. She hated it. I went to a Catholic school, and they knew I was LDS because one of the priests asked if any Mormons were in the class. Yet, I have to say they treated me decently for the most part. I did get picked on some, but not because I was LDS. I did have fewer friends tho - I can count on one hand. Not sure how much of that was religious, but my religion was not brought up - hardly at all anyway. I was a skinny nerd. At the time the Church became the center of my social life.
  10. Yes. When they get left behind, they will change their tune.
  11. Well, I think several posters have said as much, but you are slightly confounding terms here. I consider the Bible to be the most "complete" version of the scriptures. It can stand alone. It contains the fulness of the gospel, but imho estimation has been partially misinterpreted - including by the Church. The Book of Mormon does contain the fulness of the gospel, but really cannot stand alone. It does not really address what sin is too much. It is a supplementary scripture, which expounds upon biblical prophecies and other scriptural concepts. IMHO it too has been misinterpreted somewhat by the Church. I will echo Robert here. I have never said the Bible is "corrupt" - at least not the KJV. However, I have asserted and continue to assert that the KJV has some scribal errors, omissions, and in some ways is not a great translation of the Hebrew. It does better in the Greek translation department. Do I believe there are corrupt Bibles as the BoM states? Yes. The KJV is one of the better versions, and is not corrupted in its teachings. I imagine the Lord believed the JST was complete enough, as he allowed JS to die. I largely consider it to be inspired interpretation rather than a new version anyway. I believe the Church has taken the right tack in including it for study/explanatory purposes. The Book of Abraham is inspired scripture, although we largely do not understand its translation process. One thing is for sure - its translation is not based upon 3rd century BC Egyptian. If you are speaking of the Book of Commandments - it was superceded by D & C with complete knowledge of JS. If you are referring to the lectures on faith - imho they clearly are not dictation from the Lord like D&C. I don't consider them scripture. The Bible. It has the most contributions by the most prophets, and the most complete set of teachings, and continues to be my favorite scripture source. However, it is not complete. It refers to the BoM. It also says there will be additional prophecy by other witnesses such as the two witnesses of Rev 11. So, I am not quite sure of the purpose of your exercise.
  12. A Smithsonian archaeologist has already blown away the accepted (~18,000 - 20,000 YBP) land bridge timeline by dating human sites in the northeast up to 30,000 YBP. Fiinding Neaderthal remains or tools would be more conclusive and interesting tho. Maybe Sabertooths broke mastadon bones for their marrow? We know that hyenas break bones to eat marrow. Assuming unworked rocks were used by hominids to break open these bones is not conclusive evidence for the presence of man imho.
  13. If you wish to get resurrected any time soon that might be recommended......
  14. One chapter in one or two books is not a lot to go on - so yea "very little" at least in judeochristian tradition. I don't believe the Bible is concerned with how man was created too much. The 7 generations of creation get interpreted various ways in scripture including getting applied to the seven seals. The fact that man and woman were created last tho seems to be a consistent theme.
  15. Don't you know Glenn Beck steals all his best material from the GAs?