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      Contact Us Broken   09/27/2016

      Users, It has come to our attention that the contact us feature on the site is broken.  Please do not use this feature to contact board admins.  Please go through normal channels.  If you are ignored there then assume your request was denied. Also if you try to email us that email address is pretty much ignored.  Also don't contact us to complain, ask for favors, donations, or any other thing that you may think would annoy us.  Nemesis


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About RevTestament

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    Separates Water & Dry Land
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  1. Not really at all - especially given that these stories were not written until years later during a time when BY was promoting polygamy as essentially necessary - easy to get the story a little embellished in that atmosphere.
  2. This is also incorrect. Rev 3:20 does not apply to the sacrament instituted by Yeshua. The sacrament is to be done in remembrance of Him - this is where the Catholics get it wrong, and essentially resacrifice Him on the table. "If ye do this not, you will have no part in me." And that relates to a simpler ordinance. Jesus clearly commanded His apostles to continue the practice in remembrance of Him.
  3. That is not really accurate. The physical baptism represents the body rising out of the sea of the world, and is for the physical resurrection of the body. Baptism by the spirit in the laying on of hands is the internal renewal of the soul or being born again spiritually. The evangelical idea that we don't need a physical immersion in water is false. All the apostles did it.
  4. Since several people refer to the story, it seems more likely there was an angel(I realize you are claiming JS was just lying). The problem is third parties are notoriously inaccurate in getting details of a story right. I believe it likely Joseph Smith told them the angel commanded him to adopt this practice or principle, which is where section 132 came from. I personally seriously doubt that the angel commanded JS to marry any specific women. He related the story as to why he was proposing, and they got the impression he was telling them the Angel told him he had to marry them, when he was trying to relate the importance of the principle, and that it was really OK to marry him if they wanted. I simply don't believe God would command JS to marry. That is one sided especially when he was already married as others note. Why would the angel need to reappear? Sounds more like JS just kept relating the same story, and the women kept getting the impression JS was telling them he was supposed to marry them. I know my wife and I will often remember things differently some years later. I personally feel absent another revelation, we will never know the complete truth on the matter.
  5. I really don't think there are any spiritual repercussions for innocent children by receiving a different formulation of a vaccination. The kids would be totally not to blame. Spiritual repercussions would be for making bad life choices. I also doubt embryo tissue research used in vaccinations would cause the suicide rate to increase only in Utah. So that seems to be excluded as a cause. I also don't think there has been a marked rise in abuse or other type of "preying" causing the rise. It might be attributed to a rise in air pollution. Perhaps you could check those statistics. Has air pollution risen or changed significantly in the last 15 years. I have also read of connections between diesel fumes at a young age and autism. So we might be paying a mental health price based on pollution. This was also about the time Church growth markedly slowed - indicating people are having difficulties with reconciling anti-LDS stuff with the restored gospel or traditional narrative. This would be a marked stressor for LDS. If the statistics are particularly related to LDS youth, this area would be a likely cause of the increase in suicides. Some people who have left the Church, such as Jeremy Runnels, have described a good bit of mental anguish in the process. Others might choose suicide over disappointing their family. If it is a state-wide increase not connected to religious affiliations then I like my air pollution idea better or some other likely environmental factor. At this point I don't know if there is sufficient info to ultimately find a cause or causes.
  6. Job's story definitely does include a pattern of the pre-existence - most notably the reference to when the morning stars sang together, I believe is a reference to the prophets in the pre-existence. I don't think I need to discuss much that the prophets encounter and overcome many difficulties. Moses had to turn from the riches of Egypt only to brave the desert. The list only goes on. So Job is yes, a pattern of trial encountered in life. Job is helping the Lord defeat Satan through His loyalty even though God does Him wrong, and causes Him suffering. Of course in Yeshua's case He willingly accepted that.
  7. I don't use the word deity, Jim. It is a Latin-derived word, which has no biblical meaning for me. Heavenly Father is the Most High El or if you insist deity. But I really don't know what deity means - biblically. El means something like power, so Heavenly Father is the Most High power. That is his title or office. His name is YHWH. Like Yeshua, He is often referred to as YHWH Elohim in the scriptures. I imagine Eloah is another title for Him. El Gibbor is another title for Him, which means the Mighty Power. Orthodoxy has incorrectly adopted the Jewish idea that El Shaddai refers to the Father, but it does not. It refers to the Son, our Savior, and means something like "the power which weans us" rather than "the Almighty God." Yeshua is the one asking for others to come into His house. I really don't understand how you reach your conclusion. Do you agree that Yeshua's house consists of His followers and not an earthly building? I think you will find that the Jews considered their vows to be covenants with God - do you believe there is a difference?
  8. Being a witness doesn't necessarily mean an eye witness. Paul never saw Yeshua in the flesh, but only in vision - no one with him saw Yeshua. Modern apostles are basically the same. A few, like Lorenzo Snow saw Him in vision, but most are just witnesses through their testimonies. I'm sure they have received various types of revelation from the Lord.
  9. I agree that music can be used poorly - some rock music and rap comes to mind. I just don't get that feeling from this song. You are of course entitled to dislike it. Maybe I'm wrong. If they were trying to apply it to the United States' involvement in the Vietnam War, (were they?) then I would agree with you I think. Cheers
  10. Ultimately, I believe that is music's most basic power - to touch us emotionally - it brings back memories, makes us cry, makes us happy, and inspires what is beautiful. It has always been a big part of my life.
  11. I remember the song from The Legend of Billy Jack The song was of course written as an anti-war song - revealing the ultimate greed, and bad reasons behind war. However, that didn't really apply to the Vietnam War IMHO which was the backdrop of the times. At least not from the perspective of the United States which entered the war for defensive help. Perhaps that is what Calm is alluding to. I personally like the song. I find it thought provoking, and I like the melody.
  12. That secret lies in the Torah and D&C. Beyond that we don't really know -- My current thinking is that Heavenly Father is one with all those before. When Yeshua will be called the Eternal Father (Isa 9:6) will He be one with the Father still? My guess is yes - so no new El/power formed.
  13. Thanks for the chuckle Nehor. I have a nice juicy roast in the slow cooker right now.... it will be my only meat for today. Is that sparingly? I tend to think of one helping of meat per day as being sparingly except for in times of famine... which fortunately I have not experienced.
  14. I still know he restored the true principles in the NT. Baptism for the dead, the truth about three heavenly kingdoms, true priesthood principles, and many others. I cannot help you much with whom and what you believe concerning Joseph Smith. But I will point out that almost all that negative history is hearsay, and there is much demonstrable false hearsay evidence regarding Joseph Smith - for example the stories made up about the Spalding manuscript, which now sits in the Oberlin library. Yet, this story had supporting affidavits, etc, and was spun in such a believable way. It is important to remember that probably every one or at least most of those stories you are apparently believing were told/written after Joseph Smith died - a lot by people who were strongly opposed to polygamy and had axes to grind. I am more inclined to believe Emma, but even then implying something doesn't necessarily make it true vis-a-vis her version of the Fanny Alger story. ie What exactly was "the act" that she caught JS in? Sitting and talking in the hay? Kissing? or ??? I can understand how any one of those might make her upset, but not all are necessarily sinful. Anyway, I will bow out because I do not want to get into a discussion about JS' polygamy. God bless Meadowchick
  15. Well, I suppose some could ask for a calling as a temple worker. They will probably get obliged. Others can go to the temple as long as they want while it is open, almost every week-day if they want. I will say though that temple work is repetitive. There are 4 possible ordinances for individuals, which we perform for our ancestors as proxies. A few hours of that is usually enough for me. However, one does not have to do temple work. One could clothe and sit in the celestial room pretty much all they want. Some have suggested other ways to devote oneself. You can spend countless hours doing family history, volunteering at a bishop's storehouse, church facility such as a cannery, etc. The church doesn't really have "retreats" with some exceptions. Teenagers get invited to an annual pioneer hand-cart outing which lasts several days, and provides time for reflection - between the sweat that is. There is an annual Father-son campout, but I've never felt that to be particularly spiritual, but boy scouts I believe do provide some excellent experiences with the right leaders. The church just doesn't have particular facilities devoted to a lifestyle - there is no place in the church(other than perhaps the temple) to go and hide away from life. It seems the Lord gives us the opportunity to experience it all.