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clarkgoble

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About clarkgoble

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  1. It seems to me the question isn't what God could do but what God did do. As soon as we start making decisions based upon what we'd do if we were God as indicative of whether something was divine or not I think we're down a problematic line of logic. (IMO). Without knowing the constraints God was under how do we answer this? Further by the time of the Plat of Zion Joseph had been exposed to the language of the Book of Mormon perhaps having picked up some of the grammar and idioms. This (IMO) makes the Plat of Zion less indicative of much since it's fairly likely the Book of Mormon language affected its language much as the KJV affected peoples language. I'd need to relook at Stanford's paper on that to see if there were any unique structures there not in the Book of Mormon (or easily derivable from them given a broader category).
  2. It's a case of ad homen argument fallacy and makes the further mistake of not realizing those he raises aren't particularly disliked. I'm at the stage of not really thinking this is even a real post. Seems like someone trolling but doing a caricature of how they think people argue. Doing it for the lols.
  3. That presupposes only God is communicating. While it's done by the power of God, it doesn't follow that God the Father or Jesus are necessarily dictating the text.
  4. Agreeing with someone isn't plagiarism. Mesoamerica is an obvious location. And theories about mesoamerica go back very far.
  5. I think his argument is that since EmodE isn't in Joseph's environment (plausible, although not yet fully demonstrated) it is evidence Joseph's getting it from somewhere else. If one accepts it's revelation then that'd be evidence for tight control. Although as I've mentioned one could easily reconcile this with other models. Once you have EmodE in the Book of Mormon in unique ways it's quite plausible it'd affect his language elsewhere.
  6. That’s really changed a lot I think as Alberta grew with the oil boom and then faced a semi collapse economically as oil prices fell. Of course I’ve not been living there in some time.
  7. In most general 19th century corpuses copies of sermons by these popular preachers should be included. So it'd depend upon what corpus is being searched. Again while Google's corpus and search has a lot of issues, it does include these works. Your point about accuracy of transcripts is a good one. It's quite plausible that the grammar was improved slightly by editors. The court transcripts I've brought up a few times are likely the best source of seeing how grammatical structures survived. As I mentioned other elements of EmoE survived well into the 19th century in pockets. It's just that there's not as much data as one would wish so words and spellings tend to be what gets focused on the most. I'd probably look at close linguistic ethnographic studies of secluded regions in the early 20th century as well. Those are primarily unrelated to Joseph's region - frequently in the mountains of the Appalachians - but could be a nice way to see if EmoE grammar survived in such pockets. If it did then that's prima facie argument against Stanford's thesis. My guess is though that we won't find them. But of course I don't know for sure. I can't speak for Stanford, but I think it doesn't tell us much since clearly some elements are 19th century as I believe Stanford also accepts. People have drawn up fanciful speculations on that, but that's all they are. By and large to me it's an interesting phenomena in the text that tells us little except that Joseph likely wasn't the sole author. I've mentioned in various places that for the fraud model claims of plagiarism were present from the time of Joseph Smith. (The purported Spaulding Manuscript as well as View of the Hebrews have both been popular at various times) At best this suggests some much older text plagiarized for those skeptical of restoration truth claims. For those who accept the traditional account an obvious possibility is people with exposure to such language being involved in some unknown way with the translation. It's easy to come up with fanciful explanations along those lines although I'd not take them too seriously.
  8. This is one of many problems with that post. First off it confuses enforcement with the code. The argument isn't that the code's become more strict (it demonstrably hasn't - indeed it was heavily liberalized while I was at BYU - and was done with student involvement). Rather it's that enforcement has become more strict. I'm fine with changing some of the sillier things such as the beard ban, of course. But that's not what I think the most vehement folks are really after (as the BCC post makes clear) Right, but then the figure to compare isn't the current student population. There's a lot of distortion (IMO) in the press. It's done electronically and all you need is a name and email. Presumably, especially given it's prominence in news stories and social media, many and likely most aren't students.
  9. There's nothing in the honor code against doing something like this unless they were asked to leave and didn't. Which BYU didn't do. I should note that after talking to some people on Twitter that there are multiple groups. One, Restore Honor, want to keep the code and enforcement but change how the honor code office does things allowing more room for repentance rather than quick expulsion. The other which includes that BCC post and the petition clearly wants to eliminate all enforcement. And that assumes all the people there are students.
  10. Here's the KSL one. Have a hard time believing it's 500 people.
  11. I'm hearing that a few hundred people turned out although the pictures I've seen looked much smaller. Most of the press photos I've seen are tightly cropped making it hard to know how many people were there. It sounds about on par with the anti-Cheney protests from 2007.
  12. It did seem like we were headed in that direction with some of the antifa and anarchy protests and neonazi groups. But things appear to have calmed down a great deal. Plus everyone is so hyperaware of what happened in the 30s that I can't see it getting out of hand despite all the over the top rhetoric in the press. Europe I still worry about though.
  13. I'm a fan of the American Revolution but I can't be the only person who has trouble with the Boston Tea Party. There were lots of bad things in the American Revolution (look at treatment of loyalists or the failure on the Plains of Abraham when Canada was invaded). The aims were good but like any war there were lots of excesses along the way. One can't say, "well this was in the Revolutionary War therefore it was good..."
  14. Umm. Have your read about brownshirts protesting communist party meetings in the 30's. Literally fascism rose with protests. And while communists aren't quite fascist mainly due to rejecting nationalism they tended to do the same thing. Protestors on the far right and far left are basically aping what was going on in the pre-war era.
  15. No problem. I should have linked to both, but the BCC post was discussing the petition. The BCC post does argue for the same sort of thing. The comments are even more vehement for non-enforcement. Here’s a bit from the OP. "Restrict “honor code” investigations to cheating and plagiarism like other schools and manage them through the Dean of Students. Keep the code or not, but completely scrap the culture of tattling and enforcing that currently exists that is truly unique at the BYU schools (come on, saying that “all schools have one” is disingenuous at best given the tattling environment that exists at BYU). Don’t reward or encourage or enable tattling, full stop." What most of the people seem to want is no enforcement of the honor code, just mental health therapy and cheating enforcement. The consequence of that should be obvious. It's already Russian roulette for roommates with there being a fair number who drink, have sex promiscuously and more. Most of mine were good but it wasn't hard to see what was going on around. One complex I lived in during my late 20's was infamous. The apartment across from ours was regularly drinking, doing drugs and so forth with lots of parties attended by many BYU students. Never called the HCO except for the peeping tom guy. But if they're your roommates IMO that's a completely different situation. I think if you rent a BYU Standards apartment you should expect what you pay for.
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