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alter idem

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About alter idem

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    Senior Member: Divides Heaven & Earth

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  1. Snuffer hasn't rejected the Mormon faith completely, just the version as he perceives it today, so yes, he uses the LDS KJV version and wouldn't see a problem with this. He's trying to appeal to non-LDS, but I don't know how much success he's having with that. So far I don't think he's made any changes to the Book of Mormon. I don't remember if the Remnant accepts the Pearl of Great Price, but wouldn't be surprised if they've rejected it. They have their own version of the Doctrine and Covenants and they accept the Bible--probably most traditional versions of it.
  2. I used to post on a forum where there were a lot of Snuffer admirers, which was one of the reasons I'm no longer there, but because of my time there, I know a lot about Snuffer and how he came to create this little group of dissenters. They are an off-shoot of the church, they call themselves 'the Remnant' and they now have their own scriptures--which is how you found their version of the Book of Mormon. They join 100's of other off-shoots of the CofJesusChristof LDS. Denver Snuffer was a convert, joined about 45 years ago and claimed to have seen Jesus Christ. In the 2000's, he wrote several books which gained him a following--they were geared toward teaching others how to see Jesus Christ. He had a blog and his books, which his admirers would read and then discuss among themselves. He was not on the Church radar during this time, but had an internet following of LDS members who admired him and believed he had seen Christ and that he could help others do the same. The turning point came with the Book, "Passing the Heavenly Gift", which was where Snuffer started to turn against the church and claim that it was rejected in about 1840 because they didn't build the Nauvoo Temple in a certain timeframe. He claimed the church lost the priesthood and was rejected. There were other things he disagreed with that the church teaches, but that was the biggie. He was called in by church leaders and told to not publish the book and not to go through with his plan of giving 10 lectures that he had planned and he refused. If you read his 10 lectures you can see that they were right to excommunicate him, as he teaches false doctrines, but claims they are the true gospel. Some of his false teachings are that everyone must see Jesus Christ, while they are in this life, or they cannot live with God and Jesus Christ in the next life. He also teaches that those who listen to and heed a Prophet (such as LDS members) are also cut off from God, because they followed the 'arm of flesh'. He claimed he would never start his own church, but he did. He just doesn't call it a church--his followers meet in homes and where they hold a 'sacrament'--only they eat big chunks of bread and drink wine (something LDS do not do). His followers have rejected the World of Wisdom as manmade, and most things that were not introduced by Joseph Smith--they don't believe in our LDS temples, because Snuffer says they need to build their own. They don't pay tithing, but give offerings at their meetings. They hold a conference of sorts twice a year. They have published their own scriptures, have removed some of the sections found in the LDS Doctrine and Covenants (a book of scripture) and they've added some of Snuffers supposed revelations which he claims came from God. One of the things Snuffer taught his followers was that their LDS baptisms weren't valid and urged them to be rebaptized in the manner he proscribed. Many who followed his admonition, when it was found out, were also excommunicated. So, Snuffer now has his own revelations and he claims God changed his name to 'David', which is supposed to mean he is the Davidic Servant that some of his followers are looking to come--this is not LDS doctrine, but it's something some seem to believe. He had more followers before his excommunication--but he's lost a lot since then. Many became disillusioned with the group(it's had internal struggles) and his hands off approach. Most members of the LDS church don't even know who he is.
  3. CBD oil is not the same thing as medical marijuana, and it's over the counter. I think it's about the same as using icy hot, blue Emu or tiger balm, but it's new and so a lot of people want to try it. It's probably not the miracle cure it's hoped to be. Marijuana products are being pushed by those hoping to make a lot of money--it's an industry which, I assume, wants to compete with 'Big Pharma' and get their share of consumer dollars. But, I don't think anyone would think it's against the word of wisdom.
  4. From your comments to Nehor and clarkgoble, do I need to have read the book to share my thoughts on the OP?
  5. I'm not sure it's useless, if you consider the eternal scheme of things, but I agree that retention of our new members should be top priority for us. We want membership in the Church to change their lives.🙂😀
  6. I don't think anyone accused him directly--but I think they did indirectly as he's a member of the Quorum of 12, who are responsible for the missionary discussions and training. Some have inferring Pres. Ballard of lying because he said he doesn't know how the practice started. Some apparently believe that he should 'know' that church leaders are responsible for how the practice started, because as some see it, the missionary discussions directed missionaries to invite to baptism in the first discussion. While it does say this, it also states 'as prompted by the spirit', which is a crucial step that seems to have been left out at times, and the part, I think Pres. Ballard is addressing.
  7. I don't believe the actual 'church' of Jesus Christ is numbers driven because the Lord doesn't care about numbers. Remember his comments about saving just one soul, and about leaving the 90 and nine to search for the one? But I will agree that a certain percentage of members are numbers driven--likely because they are the Type A, goal oriented, extroverts who are energized by this way of thinking. And, they are often the ones who become leaders and attempt to push it on everyone else. If they lose sight of what's important within the gospel, if they are too absorbed with their own thoughts and beliefs and not thinking about the fact that this is the Lord's church and his work and we need to be humble and submit to his will in building the kingdom, the work of the church can get off course and become skewed, until it is righted--as I see Elder Ballard is attempting to do.
  8. There are requirements for baptism which, it sounds like, were not followed. I'd expect that Elder Ballard would not approve of this. I think it's situations like this that brought him to make the comments he did.
  9. Don't you think that Stake President was prompted to call that man as Bishop? Heavenly Father loved that man and wanted him to repent so that he might choose to change and not continue to limit his own potential and spiritual growth. God knew what he was hiding and this experience would allow the spirit to prompt him to confess, which is often the first step in acknowledging and repenting sins. Personally, I am impressed that it was, in this case, this Stake Pres. received true prompting and guidance from the spirit. I'd like to think that this man will overcome his pornography addiction and be able to serve as Bishop one day--it's likely his own experience would help him to better understand the struggles and trials of his ward members. IMO, spiritual discernment is a real thing but there is always that pesky thing called agency which many do not understand is a vital part of everything we experience here.
  10. I'm sorry! They were not directed at you or anyone specifically. Thanks for pointing that out, I meant to make a general observation. Those who might do this most likely hang out on other forums, not here.😀 It is an observation I make about some criticisms lodged at Apostles for things they've said, which are then picked apart to support a claim.
  11. I don't know, Elder Ballard would be the one to explain that one. But, personally, I'd assume it's because the problem wasn't on his radar so much, maybe he's got new responsibilities which have brought this to his attention and it's something he can address. Maybe it's started to come up more often. Trying to baptize people for only the numbers crops up at times as a problem in various missions, and maybe in the past, it was dealt with in the areas where it was happening and not on a churchwide basis.
  12. I think Rain excellently pointed this out in an earlier post--Here is the quote: If Elder Ballard had known some people were going to pick apart every word he used in this manner, I think he'd have clarified a little more to explain so there'd be less ammunition for them to use against him. I think he'd also be incredulous at the verbal minefield apostles walk through every time they open their mouths these days. What's that saying, about those 'lying in wait'?? There are some who are ready to take anything they can get and try to use it to besmirch and tear down. Is he claiming that Missionaries were not told to 'invite to baptism' during the first discussion? No, he didn't claim that--read his continued comments, because he knows as well as any that missionaries are encouraged to 'invite' in the first discussion in Preach my gospel (I suspect he helped write it!) and trying to insist that he's chiding missionaries for doing this is incorrect. This false reading is what some are using to make him out to be a liar. 'Properly prepared' are the key words and that's the point, just as Rain explained, that's what he's complaining about. Those who invite to baptism when they haven't been directed by the spirit and when they haven't properly prepared them to make this invitation, instead leaving this out and rushing a person to baptism just to get numbers.
  13. As I read your criticisms of what he said, you are saying he DOES know where the practice began and therefore inferring he's lying. But to prove this, you'd need a statement telling missionaries to commit a person to baptism on their first introduction to the church, not matter what--but as has been shown, this is not the case, as missionaries were told to do so, as directed by the spirit. That's kind of important. I think many missionaries ignored or hurried through that important step, were then dismayed and upset when it turned out in a way they didn't like. I think some are likely guilty of that, but they want to pass the blame on others, insisting they were taught to do this, when in fact, they made the decision (likely unconsciously) to ignore that they were taught to prayerfully seek guidance and discernment in working with investigators. I think some may have been pressured by other missionaries who also were inclined to ignore the very important need to follow the spirit. Don't you think that when Pres. Ballard says 'it wasn't our intention', he's talking about this? It was not their intention that Missionaries would ignore this important step and aspect of missionary work. It wasn't their intention that numbers would take precedent, to the detriment of being guided by the spirit, it was not their intention that unprepared investigators would be rushed through lessons in order to get a baptism. Personally, I don't think he's lying about this.
  14. Sounds like you were in one of those missions run by a Mission Pres. who was into numbers. I have a relative who had such a difficult time on his mission because he was in one of these missions that it really caused him problems later. I think it's a symptom of some of the CEO type A personalities that often are called as mission presidents. I can believe Pres. Ballard is unsure where these ideas come from, because that was not what they were suggesting, but when a Mission Pres. is given the charge to step up the mission work, they may decide to do it like a business. I also believe that when General Authorities come to visit, everyone puts on their best show--like a Potemkin Village, it looks great when they come, everything runs as it should and the leaders are on their best behavior. The General Authority goes away not always seeing what's really happening--unless he is praying for discernment and looking for problems, something they may not do all the time.
  15. I'm reminded of the story of Solomon and the baby that both women claimed. I know it's a stretch, but I'll explain. Just like the woman who was fine with cutting the baby in half, People like Sam Young and Changed demand Justice--changes to the church--even if it means destroying it in the process. They see it as a false religion and wicked so they don't care if it's destroyed--they would think they are doing the world a favor by helping it along in it's demise. But, Members; true believers with testimonies, can't and will not support suggestions that would impede how the Lord has set it up or allow the world's influence to change it so that it no longer is the Lord's church. We have a church which is not run by professionals, but instead, utilizes members to serve in callings, where they must learn to be guided by the spirit and the members are charged to look after one another. I don't see how we can get rid of that model--we can and are trying to protect members from abuse and problems within the inspired system set up.
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