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Everything posted by jpv

  1. I have a lot of Holy Envy for Catholicism/Orthodoxy for how intellectually consistent they are when it comes to divorce and abortion.
  2. Garments are from Nauvoo, not Kirtland.
  3. Yep, I knew one: https://leadingsaints.org/lgbt-issues-in-the-bishops-office/
  4. Might refer to mandatory excommunication as part of the repentance process for repeat offenders.
  5. The cultural/historical background has a lot to do with it: From my LDS Wayment Translation: "The Pharisees had assumed that Jesus would contradict popular interpretations about permissible divorce. The region near the Jordan River was perhaps the same area where John the Baptist taught, and the Pharisees may have been attempting to entrap Jesus into condemning Antipas’s marriages." From my Harper Collins NRSV: ‘5.32 Except on the ground of unchastity (cf. 1 Cor 7.10–11). This “exception clause” (not in Mk 10.11) is an interpretation of an ambiguous expression in Deut 24.1, “something objectionable” (Hebrew ‘erwat dabar, lit. “nakedness of a thing” cf. “anything indecent,” decent,” Deut 23.14). Some first-century Israelite teachers interpreted it to mean “a disgrace and/or some other thing,” thus permitting a man to divorce his wife for almost any reason, even burning the dinner (Rabbi Hillel) or not being as beautiful as another woman (Rabbi Akiba); cf. Mishnah Gitin 9.10; similarly Josephus, Antiquities 3.276–77; Life 426; Philo, On the Special Laws 3.30–31. A more restrictive interpretation was that it referred specifically to her “unchastity,” i.e., adultery (Rabbi Shammai; cf. Mishnah Gitin 9.10). The Greek term porneia in Matthew means any form of “sexual immorality,” not just adultery; yet, since the Matthean statement is polemical (“But I say to you”), the author’s single exception (unchastity) may have meant adultery. In Mk 10.11 there are no exceptions, therefore no grounds for divorce; this was probably the historical Jesus’ view (cf. 1 Cor 7.10; Justin, First Apology 15.3). Paul also softened Jesus’ view, allowing non-believers to “separate” cf. 1 Cor 7.10–16. The Matthean author apparently preferred the position of Shammai.’ Could also mean that divorcing with the intent marrying someone else is adultery.
  6. Elder Wells and Joseph Bishop have been deposed.
  7. You realize that even the very archtype of the Biblical fundamentalist conservative LDS orthodoxy, Bruce R. McConkie himself taught and believed the earth was billions of years old, right? Go ahead and say that he railed against evolution, but getting sick of people saying that even conservative-mos* are Young Earth Creationists https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_seven-deadly-heresies/ "Mo" is short for MOTCOJCOLDS of course.
  8. I used to have a huge issue with this kind of thing. City Creek, etc. Excommunicated historian D. Michael Quinn changed my opinion with his latest book. Listen to this interview. He really helped me see it from a faithful perspective. https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/mormon-wealth-and-corporate-power
  9. For sure. It's just like when critics claim Mountain Meadows to be greatest massacre in American history and conveniently ignore the many massacres by the federal government upom the Native Indians.
  10. There are accounts of just that, but they don't fit before April 6, 1830.
  11. How do you reconcile the statements by Joseph? Or do you just consider them wrong? (Which is fair too).
  12. Assuming good faith here, but Elder Ballard's address to CES and to all Saints in a Utah regional training (both transcripts online) 'It is important that you know the content in these essays like you know the back of your hand. If you have questions about them, then please ask someone who has studied them and understands them. In other words, “seek learning, even by study and also by faith” as you master the content of these essays." https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/evening-with-a-general-authority/2016/02/the-opportunities-and-responsibilities-of-ces-teachers-in-the-21st-century?lang=eng
  13. Great question, I do thing it's something to grapple with (personally and as a church) and not brush aside and we sometimes should expect more. I do think that it's reasonable to sustain a good Bishop as a judge in Israel, even if it so happens at the time he presides, he never executes judgement and holds disciplinary councils as an example.
  14. This is exactly how I have come to reconcile the criticisms of Snufferism, etc. I'm at peace with the Church, and content with President Nelson's abundance of administrative revelation, depsite the relative dearth of charasmatic prophesy, seership (in the scriptural sense with seer stones), and theological revelation. The Church and the keyholders are the custodians of the ordinances of exaltation.
  15. Brigham Young’s Teachings on Adam and Eve, from the Original Shorthand Record "We Would Not Have a World without Eve": Brigham Young's Teachings on Eve from the Original Shorthand Record LaJean Purcell Carruth, Church History Library Brigham Young and the Adam-God Theory: A Cosmological Framework Jonathan Stapley, Bellevue, Washington Looks fascinating. How much for members and non members?
  16. I think the change in the temple law of Chastity is a step against it.
  17. Did you shell out $259 for it? Does it have a lot more material than Devery Anderson's trilogy and the William Clayton diaries (HCK in particular) or am I covered with those?
  18. Agree. We don't have a systematic theology. And I don't even agree with all of Blake. It's because we don't that we can have a never-ending continual journey of study. Bro Brigham's opinion was that we'll never cease to learn. I have to say I get theological nourishment from Bro. Givens as well. 😀
  19. Someone believes in Adam-God 😉
  20. You can see it identified in the model in the south visitor center in temple square: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/scaled-model-provides-salt-lake-temple-open-house-experience
  21. No it's not. It's the center "sealing room" off the Celestial Room. Always locked with a table in front of it. There is a meeting room for the 12/1st Presidency above the Celestial Room, but it's not the HoH. Look in early editions of Talmage's House of the Lord. http://www.ldsliving.com/What-the-Church-Has-Said-About-the-Holy-of-Holies/s/88839
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