Jump to content

Calm

Contributor
  • Content Count

    54,397
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Calm

  1. You are not allowed to share any personal info here the person does not share themselves. If you see anything like that, report it and it should get deleted, but it might take some time. What goes on elsewhere if someone makes a connection is out of mods' control, of course, but if it is harassment, I would complain with some evidence of what is going on if possible and that might get them banned, but that is probably not much deterrent for those so inclined.
  2. Experiencing something different than usual often heightens our awareness of it. That might be part of the feeling special.
  3. Did someone make a claim of 3 million for the open house? The only reference I saw to that number was yearly visitors to temple square.
  4. Sounds like a worthwhile experience. I decided not to watch it or similar depictions (even by the Church) because I don't want to set in my mind someone else's experience of the Crucifixion or other experiences in Christ's life. It is similar to how I am avoiding the movies based on the Tolkien books, but for much more serious reasons (just saw the first Tolkien movie once in the theatre, since then leave the room quickly if my family is indulging in them again). But I know a lot of people find watching others' visualizations quite helpful, so I don't argue against it (except that they changed way too many things from the Tolkien books from what I saw and have heard about the later ones and that is sacrilege!).
  5. I am not offended or even upset at this point, though I went significantly past frustrated earlier in the thread. I still believe it is very, very, very important to approach suicide and depression in mentally and emotionally supportive ways, which may not always be "common sense" according to research. To do so, we need to inform ourselves and preferably not in a superficial way that can hurt more than it helps. Is there any indication in that sentence that being a member of the Church is relevant to that higher risk? The Church isn't even mentioned in it, instead, it is a general statement, much like others found on secular websites discussing mental health and suicide, including various vulnerability factors. The purpose of the website is informative to anyone who reads it, it is not just for or about gay members. In the About section, there is a purpose statement that is for that section, but can easily be applied to the entire website: Whether readers are nonmembers or are members who identify as gay, have SSA, or are OSA, this website informs about the how, whys, and whats of Church doctrine and practices and how it impacts people's lives. That should clearly not be read as every bit of info is meant to apply to all or only gay Mormons.
  6. I was pretty sure that is what you meant, wanted to be sure.
  7. Yes, you did. You are representing it as me excluding any discussion of the Church contributing to increasing vulnerabilities as not giving the reason makes it appear that my concern was for the Church when my concern is increasing vulnerability; my argument was people shouldn't make inaccurate or unfounded statements as they may be contributing to increasing vulnerabilities by normalizing the idea of suicide. Some of these inaccurate statements have been the policy caused an increase of suicide or that the Church is the primary cause because the best data available is contrary to both statements. Another inaccurate claim is that there is one cause for suicide when the research shows vulnerabity is highly complex with multiple contributors. I would challenge claims that homosexuality sexual behaviour itself was the cause of the increased risk of depression as I haven’t seen any research that differentiates between those who experience same sex attraction but do not act on it with those who don’t. If the research isn’t there, people shouldn’t be making claims as if it is.
  8. I doubt it will be more than a guess on the "real suffering". No matter how good an actor is, he is still acting. Plus I hope neither the director nor the actor ever saw a person suffering at that level of pain, so how can they know how to portray it save by extrapolating from much lesser experiences of suffering? Not saying that won't appear traumatic enough watching. The actor was injured a number of times himself, so quite a bit of the pain itself is real. But he wouldn't have to be wearing makeup if the suffering was completely real. https://www.today.com/popculture/caviezel-playing-christ-proved-be-challenge-wbna4297029 So if you want to watch it, but it is troubling you, try reminding yourself it is mostly pretend, highly committed pretend, but pretend nonetheless.
  9. Meaning what please? That it claims being gay AND a Latter-day Saint leads to depression and suicide? If so, please quote where it says that.
  10. You believe he is right in the bolded phrase? Not a claim we put a huge symbolic importance importance and salvative efficacy, but his claim that it is more than any other Christian church? How do you make that comparison of importance to each If so? How can the "more than" be measured in your view?
  11. The only one I ever really considered was the "universal" with CTR in a dozen of languages or so. It was more about feeling I shared something with others all around the world. Isn't something that can be conveyed very well outside of language or flags and flags feel more nationalistic to me than communal. Universal ctr spinner ring
  12. Maybe something like this : https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2018/03/09/carbon-nanotube-membrane-breakthrough-is-real-world-star-trek-replicator-mattershift/#7618634a520f
  13. How about he is right that we have that symbology in the temple (since any temple goer can vouch for that though others if they wanted a firsthand verification would have to use the immorally obtained temple ceremony films...which iirc you have respectfully declined to do), but he hasn't proven it is of more significance to our faith than the Cross and its symbology means to others? And I don't think he can. I have known a few temple goers who express boredom in participating in the endowment even while they do it because they recognize eternal significance for others in their actions. I don't see a 'requirement' for symbolic personal reflection, but an opportunity for it...an opportunity not everyone takes. If there are people in other faiths who take their rituals as opportunities, how can we claim ours is inherently of more symbolic importance in general? It may be for the individual, it may not. Thinking about it, he may be able to argue why we should view it as more significant without specifics on what it is based on how he sees it impact us. I would be interested to see if he is willing to do that. (Not saying I willagree with such conclusions, just that it could be an option for discussion) Now I do believe there is great nonsymbolic importance in the ceremony that is dependent on the individual accepting the sacrament/ordinance for themselves, but that is a matter of faith I cannot prove.
  14. Very much so. Our understanding is extremely dependent on our expectations, what we bring to conversations. We need to examine and understand and then communicate these if we are to understand what we are trying to communicate with each other. If we use the same 'language' base (jargon) as others we are communicating with or we have enough experience with each other's jargon, we can be lazy and skip the explaining of expectations (such as how we define things, but also the connotations and background we place our definitions in) and still communicate well, but often we are fooled by our shared set of expectations into believing all our expectations are the same and we end up talking at cross purposes (which I have seen happen between immediate family members who you would think understood each other well enough, but they walked away thinking the opposite of the other).
  15. Sorry...born in the covenant, shorthand for parents sealed before I was born so I didn't go through a sealing ceremony with them ( something I felt a bit cheated on as a kid). Basically I was saying I grew up immersed in the LDS environment at home, so that viewpoint is what I grew up with...a viewpoint that never had leaders as mediators between me and God. In fact, it was pretty well drilled into me at home and at church as I remember that I needed to speak to God myself and invest a lot of time on my knees and otherwise listening for his response. Plus I needed to study the scriptures for myself rather than depending on leaders' interpretation for benefit of my personal life. A semi decent analogy I think is to view the personal line and the priesthood line as a pair of scissors, to really work well you need both sharp, the sharper the better. Also they need to be in proper alignment, too much of a gap and they don't cut. By themselves they are still functional as knives for rough jobs, but don't do the fine work they can achieve together. In this analogy, I would say a lot of people who have only half of the scissors (also known as a shear) whether by choice or circumstance have sharpened that so well they surpassed the cutting ability of many that use both, but they could achieve even more with both. add-on: there are members who think that if the priesthood line shear is perfectly sharp, that means they don't need to sharpened the personal line shear, but what it ends up really meaning imo is the scissors never cut because they don't actually pick them up to communicate with God themselves. I also think it is unrealistic to assume the priesthood line is always as sharp as it should be. Nicks and dullness can happen to both shears.
  16. I disagree with his claim we place more symbolic importance, etc. than others as use of symbolic language and the meaning of it is so subjective an experience for each individual, but I believe he is referring to specific aspects of the temple ceremony which discussion of probably fall out of the bounds of this board's guidelines. The whole idea of a competition over who sees the Cross as more symbolically meaningful is inappropriate, imo.
  17. I look on it as more "setting apart" in the same sense that the WoW sets Saints apart and that circumcision (in LDS interpretation generally) set apart the ancient Israelites...though in the case of the nonuse of the Cross, I don't see that as a commandment or counsel from God, but something picked up from culture and then rewritten into symbolic tradition/language. This may result in distancing by some..maybe most from time to time though less intend it to be intentional I believe because we do try to see others as the family of God (and I think our willingness to invest a lot of effort and resources shows we really feel that way), it can be hard to be 'in the world but not part of it' and recognize others doing the same but with different methods at times. Much easier when struggling with being different to embrace feeling out of the world, imo. I don't see scouting symbols as inherently distancing those who identify themselves as scouts from nonscouts in my experience. Same thing with YW's medallions. Rather they add a quality to one's identity. Nonuse of something can take on distancing if we focus on what our nonuse means to others rather than what it means to ourselves (I don't use makeup, I can focus on why I don't or why others do and why I make a different choice, the last can distance as I compare myself to others while the first tells me about me).
  18. How it is generally taught... https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/two-lines-of-communication?lang=eng My summary of this talk is the Priesthood line of communication is necessary, but when it comes to our personal interaction with God it is meant to be supportive and is to strengthen our personal relationship, not substitute for it. Leaders have long recognized that those members who do substitute a leader's voice for God's weaken their connection with the Spirit (last paragraph and especially last sentence of the above).
  19. I am BIC as well as my parents and grandparents so growing up I was never really exposed to a convert's perspective on this topic save through perhaps some testimonies at Church which I never interpreted as different from what I was hearing at home. My experience is consistent with yours. Nothing that my parents or grandparents said led me to believe our leaders were the sole conduit to Christ and the Father. Every week at church I saw numerous members give prayers to God and I was taught God hears those prayers. Testimonies were given about the very personal nature of the Spirit speaking to individuals in their hearts and minds.
  20. Probably the same deal with having non teachers be teachers and non secretaries be secretaries and non clerks be clerks. We are a lay organization without professional training for our callings. We expect people's life experiences to provide most training plus additional in the job training and manuals and some training meetings to help.
  21. Yes, I am calmoriah, got lazy one night and shortened my name. I didn’t take it as cheek, thank you for understanding
  22. I will tell the world you posted before my edit, you did not clip the quote to steal my joke.
  23. Looking at other pictures, there is a slight discoloration in some of them that might be a vein or just the way the light shines. Or it might be a discolored spot of skin thought best to be removed to avoid chance of cancer. Or he gouged his head on a tree branch or opened cupboard door...at least that is what my husband does. There are advantages to being short. And disadvantages to being bald.
  24. Not in a good mood tonight, think it best just not to post right now.
×
×
  • Create New...