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Calm

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Calm last won the day on May 22

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About Calm

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    Dulce de labris loquuntur, corde vivunt noxio.
  • Birthday October 28

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  1. Putting off putting laundry away (what a waste of time when all you do is pull it out again to wear, right?) and checked out Money's FB page: "OK everyone I am closing all comments on all my posts/threads for now, this comment shall be the last one, trying to work this out with John personally, am exhausted and want to spend more time with family. I believe there is hope for cooler heads to prevail here, and time for everyone to cool down might be part of the solution." Hopefully between the personal stuff and the podcasts, much of this can get resolved for them.
  2. Update on a presentation, sounds very interesting: https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2017
  3. It is only gas lighting if you know they are right and you are trying to trick them into doubting themselves.
  4. First one I am assuming, how far into it?
  5. So it appears the podcast is not going to show up before I am unavailable to listen to it (unless it's not before next Monday) as I have family starting to come in for a wedding and then after wedding, get togethers. Not sure what new info could come out before then, so I feel like at this point there will be probably nothing but rehashing going on untill the podcast. While my preference would be for the thread to be locked as shorter threads make it easier to find stuff, I am not the only one who invested in the thread so will not be asking mods to close it unless someone makes a good argument for it or multiple people ask. Someone else might ask however, though I hope you give others a chance to speak of their preferences before hitting "report". As for keeping it on topic, I probably won't be around much and won't be reporting derails myself, but would ask you to respect others' requests. There is another thread already open about transparency ("Light" thread if you haven't noticed yet); if there are other issues, it makes sense to me to focus a new thread on it as the topic will less likely get attention if embedded in an already thirteen page thread. Please don't use this thread to discuss the new podcast as that should bring out sufficient new information to justify its own thread. Referring to the info in the podcast here would of course be on topic, just don't want any effort put into a new discussion lost in this old one. Thanks again to all those who were gracious in keeping on topic. I hope it wasn't too much of a damper to your interests. Thanks to whatever mod came in so quickly as I don't think there has been a more ontopic thread this long ever (which could be good or could be bad, depending on your point of view) (no, the moderator wasn't me nor Juliann though I can understand why it looks that way to some paying attention given the almost immediate response time to the reports and my request for info about crossposting. Neither of us have cared to be moderators for years, at least over a decade for me---RIP ZLMB***. The quick mod responses were just lucky timing in spite of the absolute certainty some have elsewhere that I have a split personality and am lying through my teeth. Looking forward to finding out if this too is all part of my endless attempt at gaslighting the board. If anyone really wants to know what I was like as a mod back before this board, perhaps ZLMB is still functional enough to demonstrate...let me summarize that moderating experience for you as "Cal the optimist couldn't stop trying to get everyone to be civil to each other, which meant endless explanations, constant changes to moderation, looking for the perfect balance and ultimately total failure". Seriously, who would ever ask me to be a mod again? I am dumbfounded that anyone thinks I could bring myself to ban people without providing an hour's worth of justification and explanation to them of how to avoid getting banned next time, the amount of red text would be straggering---even with this wonderful example before me of a board with 'less being so much more' no way could I control myself to one liners or worse, no explanation at all----this post itself should be more than enough evidence for that, but apparently some people are managing it; quite astonishing). Have fun.... ***Zion's Lighthouse Message Board
  6. The question is if it is correlation or causation. Those with more commitment to the practice of marriage in the first place could also be those waiting to have sex until after marriage. Those who see marriage as more a choice of convenience would be less likely to get married first. Otoh, having that level of relationship over time outside of marriage and then getting married and perhaps feeling 'what's the big difference?', I can see that experience devaluing marriage itself that might lead to making it easier to walk away from the marriage when it is solely dependent on the quality of the relationship and they hit rocky times as most marriages do. If correlation, then it is not enough to encourage people to put off sex till marriage; one needs to instill a greater respect in the institution and a stronger, deeper desire for it to work.
  7. Good to know, .HJW. My focus was more on lack of attention (how could he not know she was sick?) than harassment given I understand it was his wife. In private, she might return the same kind of remarks. It isn't particularly appropriate in a professional setting though. ----- Tacenda posted a defense by a friend of Dehlin's in Social. Hopefully she will start her own thread and I am fine if the conversation moves there. Did want to get this counter claim up: "John and the OSF have receipts. They have the email conversations. They have the answers to these questions. I just wish that Kristy could admit that she has never made a good-faith effort to resolve these matters, as she claims to have done. Instead she began (with Kate Kelly) a public tirade last fall on Facebook. It’s been a plotted attack and now they’re using their divisive language to seemingly take down a nonprofit that is not only honest and upfront, but small and humble and growing. Of all the people and organizations and causes, you’ve decided to go after this one? An organization committed to supporting people in religious transition, saving families, and preventing depression and suicide? Seriously? Way to go. What an amazing contribution." ----- Can't really think of why they would want to orchestrate such an attack, get themselves attention perhaps? Still, if it is false and documentation is all there, they are running a big risk of destroying their own credibility. Money came out last fall in support of Dehlin though now Kelly is saying that was because she was fearful. I can't remember if Money said so herself. Personally, unless Money and anyone else Kelly says she is speaking up for don't make the same level of accusations that Kelly is making, I don't trust that Kelly isn't inflating or even making false accusations. If Money comes out and says how she appreciates Kelly's supports, but doesn't specify her accuracy, I am not going to assume Kelly has the details right. ---- The hamfisted blocking of any disagreeing or shaming him or even associating with those shaming him has pretty well been established by his actual actions. If Tyler Glenn himself got blocked as he says in the post, and tons of reports of named individuals plus all the aliases that seem to have little reason to take the time to make the claim...I assume this won't be challenged. *****FYI, There seemed to be mutual agreement among those who had been blocked from Dehlin's group that Kate Kelly does the same thing. Can't remember if this was included in her complaints in anyway...don't think so, except to be shocked when .Dehlin did it to her. I think the claim he caters to having 'celebrity' guests only is really iffy. His podcasts are in part popular because they get people currently making news in the community, so he gets the guests his audience wants. He also appears to have a wide range of others, he may have in the past been more limited, but change and efforts in the right direction should be recognized. Otoh, no one has yet taken the time to make multiple comparisons between his interviews of men and women...possible tests would be how much time he speaks vs how much time the guest speaks plus (since the first could be a result of reluctance to speak on the part of the guest) interruptions made. More subjective...how much time he spends talking about the guest vs. how much time he spends talking about himself...and see if this varies between men and women. Sexism also comes out in humor. If you can't imagine him making the same joke or remark to a male guest as a female guest and it is a personal comment having to do with her appearance or behavior, then that is inappropriate in most cases imo unless they have that kind of give and take between them (which may be so with his wife). Questions that could be answered by the above would be does he give the same level of attention and respect to female guests as male. Also for those concerned about celebrity status...besides female/male, educated/less educated, white/person of color, and wealthy/less wealthy (though one might have to guess at the guest's status). Unless Money, Kelly, and others making the claims of uneven treatment do more than just make those claims, but actually do this kind of comparison survey, pull up segments with his interactions with women they find distasteful...Iow, document the disparity, their claims won't move into the realm of really trying to make positive changes for me. The level of accusations they are claiming merit this level of documentation and if they refuse to invest time and effort or get someone else to do so, it comes across as disrespectful to their supporters or insecure that they can actually prove their case. Kelly being a women's rights lawyer must know what is considered credible in court. My opinion of her would drop if she was willing to document at least somewhat in the same way for the public court as she must do for the legal one. ---- The moderator's, Draper, claims of lack of respect and recognition seem valid, but unless demonstrated that male moderators get the recognition at least sometimes where females don't, doesn't really show anything but that he can be a selfish, self centered jerk at times. ---- I am not sure of how one would document the multiple claims of promised payment not matching up to final payments unless there were contracts. Glen says there are receipts, I assume he means for this stuff, but maybe he means for proof income is going to expenses for the show. Maybe someone else can cover possible solutions to find out which claims are credible, documentable or not of any I missed. I have got to get back to sleep for my second 3 hrs...sigh. ---- The board issue...looks like changes were made last year so that Dehlin is the only one receiving a salary on the board. Depending on how much he is involved in salary discussions (iirc there was mention of a compensation committee, which .I understand is pretty common practice), it may remove the problem of insider influence. Hopefully details on how compensation is determined will be given and we will hear he has recused himself from all such discussion even if part of the board for the past 6 years. There is still the problem with his salary, bonus, and benefits coming to at least half of the income. There are less stringent rules for small nonprofits, but this still seems to cross the line to me from everything I have read (the Common Consent blog and then the more recent Rational Faith one hope linked to cover that issue quite well imo). ---- The delay on the tax info seems reasonable since it appears there were some major changes last year, so their tax guy could have easily decided after he started the process that he needed to change from the EZ form they had been using to the long form, which probably meant gathering more details. There is also apparently no penalty for taking an extension, so why not if he had other work more urgent.
  8. Tacenda, this post is not appropriate for Social and most won't see it You really should just go start your own thread. I can get mine locked so conversation goes there if you would like. I need to get ready for family and a wedding Friday, so I can't keep an eye on it anymore.
  9. I didn't report you that I can remember so I have no clue why. I can't ban, I can only report just like everyone else and the mods have never asked me what I want done and often as far as I can tell they don't agree with me. I think I only reported one or two to begin with that were specifically dealing with how the Church wasn't as transparent as Dehlin not too long after I asked it to be kept on topic and it wasn't to ban, but asking to post a warning, but I was pretty toasted from not the best sleep yesterday, so no guarantees. I might have just reported "off topic" and left it at the mods' discretion without input. People were for the most part cooperating (I am hoping that was by choice and not banning ), it has kept pretty on target and others have added some good info and analysis; it got a bit old explaining what I thought was pretty clear about why I wanted the topic limited, but no big deal. You can always start your own thread. I am perfectly happy for mine to die. Probably a good idea for someone to start a new one after the podcast anyway. A long thread gets harder to find things in. Mine is long enough. Maybe you could start a thread on what questions you would like to see answered. PS: the "um" stuff drives me bananas, which is why I try to avoid public speaking as I am sure I would be constantly saying it if I could manage not completely to lose my train of thought.
  10. Good update. Follows in the line of the Common Consent version written a few years ago.
  11. I am not in anyway equating premarital sex with the other. It was to simply show there are times restrictions are made out of other reasons besides control. If you want me to come up with another example, I will but will have to be later. And honestly I look on premarital sex in almost the same light as the Word of Wisdom. I grew up among nonmembers that would not hold back just because I was in the group about their sexual experiences, etc. In fact, at times they quite enjoyed teasing me and being sure I was educated enough when the time came. As long as there is no pressure by either to engage in it, unless they have been taught and committed to not engaging in it, I don't see it as a sin...unfortunate yes, transgression as LDS define it, sure, major sin, no. It is a beautiful part of a relationship to desire to be with each other physically. Some people feel it is important to move to that stage in marriage, others feel it is better before marriage as a test of commitment and compatibility. If they haven't been taught to view it differently, common sense favors the latter position in my view...though research appears to contradict common sense in this case possibly. Just to be clear, I personally believe common sense is wrong in this case, but totally get why others consider it the wiser approach.
  12. If one partner was suggesting having sex before marriage and the other told the first partner that they wanted to wait to have sex after marriage to demonstrate sincerity about wanting to be married, commitment to marriage, and worthiness to be married, would you automatically think that second partner was "all about control"? My view...it might indeed be all about control, it might have nothing to do with control, it might be in part about control...my guess is the last in that the Church is concerned about setting boundaries for its members (word of wisdom for example) and that does manifest as control, but I see it more like a loving parent controlling situations in their child's life to both push them to grow and protect them from too much too soon.
  13. I fully admit it is my bias demanding I post this, but where in the world has his brain been that he is only noticing now they are on camera that his wife sounds different and was apparently unaware of her being ill? My bias is heavily weighted by previous experiences with the prolonged nastiness of sinus infections. Everyone in the house quickly becomes aware of when I or anyone else in our extended family gets one. My doctor even sent me for a catscan once just to be sure it wasn't something more deadly.
  14. The internet and cell phones may have made it easier to keep traveling Presidents connected so the need of an assistant to cover gaps is less likely, imo.