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Mark Beesley

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About Mark Beesley

  • Rank
    Separates Water & Dry Land
  • Birthday 10/26/1954

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    San Diego
  • Interests
    Golf, Skiiing

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  1. The Handbook states that the only “official” definition of hot drinks meaning tea and coffee came from early Church leaders. Which early Church leader made the announcement, in what official capacity was he acting, and was the statement ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve? References please.
  2. Thanks for the replies. I was really just rather surprised to see the relationship there so matter-of-fact like. I know of the many legends about Mary going to France and being the blood source for most European royal houses. Is any of it true? Who knows? I am also aware of nobles counterfeiting genealogies in ages past. And I know the Church no longer will accept names for ordinance work for people born before 1500. But part of the stated reason for that is the work has probably already been done, or isn’t needed. Why it wouldn’t be needed is beyond me. Beyond all of that, I have no doubt the Savior was married (He had to be under Jewish law to be a rabbi), and He probably fathered children; otherwise, He would have been viewed by the Jews as being cursed. So, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that there are living blood descendants of the Savior. Nevertheless, I agree that the most important relationship for me today is my spiritual relationship to the Savior rather than any blood relationship. But the latter gives me pause . . .
  3. So, I recently watched a good docudrama on Charlemagne. My dad had told us years later that we were related to him. After watching the docudrama I went into Family Tree pulled up my Pedigree and started going backwards to see if I could find my relationship to Charlemagne. I didn’t find Charlemagne, but as I kept following the lines back through the Royal lineages I finally came upon Jesus Christ. My Pedigree chart shows him being married to Mary Magdalene, and having three children one of which was named Sarah, my putative ancestor. Is there any reason to doubt or trust this info? ( I have a rather complete Pedigree because my great great grandfather was Orson Pratt and he did tons of genealogy work. )
  4. Added only to clarify the “triviality” question. The German soldier was in civilian clothes, was caught stealing bread, and executed for being a spy. The American soldier was executed for disobeying a direct order. Your provenance for the account will have to come from source other than me. Now I’m done, really.
  5. I do not to judge those who serve in the military. My father served. One of my sons served. Having been of age to be drafted and sent to Vietnam during the war, it scared me to death that I might have to kill someone. I probably would have done so, and I will be forever grateful that I never did. If called upon now to do so, I would refuse. “For whosoever shall save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.” For those who need clarification, and them I am done, I sleep peaceably at night because I trust in God. The freedoms and liberties I enjoy come of God, not man. The opening post was intended to provoke thought and careful reflection. Like most endeavors in my life, I failed. Welcome to the internet.
  6. This ad hominem did nothing but distract from your argument.
  7. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I sleep peaceably in my bed at night because . . oh brother, why bother? Have a nice, peaceable life relying on the violence of rough men.
  8. That is rather naïve and idealistic for you to believe the wars today are being waged to protect my freedoms or rights. Wars today are being waged to protect oil, and multinational corporation interests, and all sorts of other unrighteous designs. Read D&C section 98 before you say that I’m judging people, or laying some terrible sin at their doorstep. I am simply suggesting a higher way for the covenant people of the Lord. And since I am unqualified to judge whether a person is righteousness or unrighteousness, I cannot say that I know that there are righteous Saints serving in the military. Can you?
  9. If I were to declare that it was confirmed to me by the Spirit, would that be Spirit Manipulation? Would the recollection of one of the relations of the slain German have satisfied you? Probably not. The point is, it is better to die than to knowingly shed the blood of another Saint, I believe. The war-related message of the Book of Mormon is that wars solve nothing, a covenant people should rely on the Lord, and it is ok to have non-covenant people wage wars in our defense. This is not about whether or not a Saint sins in going to war. The Lord has made it clear that there is no sin in defending one’s families. But He has also made it clear that although a person might be justified in such action, the greater blessings are reserved for those who endure without taking up arms. See D&C Section 98. The account shared by another poster about the German soldier who appeared to the American G.I. to comfort him is instructive. And it is the reason I for one would be loathe to arm myself for purposes of self-defense or defense of my family, because of my understanding that the release from mortality is a blessing in the end.
  10. Again, nowadays there are plenty of Gentiles willing to kill.
  11. You are welcome to believe it was a fabrication if you want. Illegal stuff happens all the time in war, by soldiers and their commanders. Don't be so naive. As for your query regarding executing murderers, my general opposition to capital punishment aside, I’m pretty sure the Church excommunicates murderers. Next . . .
  12. I interpret it in light of Mormon 7:4, “Know ye that ye must lay down your weapons of war, and delight no more in the shedding of blood, and take them not again, save it be that God shall command you.” I am unaware of any conflict since the Utah War where the Lord had commanded us to take up weapons of war. There are plenty of Gentiles willing to kill in waging America’s wars. I don’t need to. And your crap about the Lord having to intervene for the Israelites and Hezekiah is just that, crap. Silly to even argue it.
  13. I recall having a discussion with someone shortly after the US invaded Iraq. Unable to justify the invasion with secular arguments, he proclaimed that the invasion would directly lead to missionaries in Iraq and that the Spirit had confirmed this to him. I’m still waiting. I think this is the worst type of manipulation, but he was young and I forgive him.
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