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why me

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About why me

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  1. This is true now. And I would guess as they do branch out, some will succumb to non member values. This is only natural. As time is becoming more limited, church members are told to do more teaching in their homes. But I would think that many members just occupy their time with non mormon things and not use the time to teach more at home. There seems to be a survival of the strong now. A sort of social darwinism inside the church.
  2. Maybe shunning is the wrong word. It has strong connotations. I think that in the mormon corridor kids are so involved with other mormons that they would have little time for non members. And of course it depends on values. Of course if a teenager comes into the neighborhood and they enjoy alcohol or drugs or have values not in sync with lds values most parents would not want their kids to hang around such a kid. Thats only normal. What does the lds church teach? I think that it teaches to befriend non members, be example to them and hopefully they will join the lds church through being a good example. Or just to be loving to your neighbor. I don't see any shunning taught.
  3. Research just how Islam was spread across the globe. And it wasn't done by 'white men'. Not to mention what was going on in central america in the past between groupings of peoples And the native americans who did come from someplace else, lets say for academic purposes, siberia and asia. I wonder when new groups of people would come if the people already there gave them a hero's welcome and assigned them a tribe.
  4. Of course, back then, there was no welfare state. Either one made it or they didn't. And there was plenty of land to settle. And opportunity. The mormons who settled in Utah depended on the church and on each other to survive. Not to mention surviving a possible war with the federal government at that time. Times have changed now. The US has most likely millions who wish to come to the US legally. It is possible. But why bother if one can do it illegally? Times have changed.
  5. I don't think people take it all so personal when they are on the board. Nor do they remember very much. I think that most memories of posts last 15 minutes, if that. So don't worry about your past posts. All is well.
  6. I think that things are different now. Missionaries can call home when they wish to. They are even on facebook now. I have had a couple of serving missionaries request me as a friend. I think that this generation has development problems. Perhaps it is because of social media. Not many perhaps can go cold turkey. Thus, we have the changes to help them cope with it all.
  7. I am not sure if church history is now causing most people to leave. One can go to the JSP site and find much knowledge. WBuho can possibly expect to know all of church history? Perhaps they may be discovering some tidbits here and there. But in seminary and other classes much is now covered. And what would be so offensive about church history to cause people to leave? And what happened to their testimonies that they would give over and over again?
  8. The first vision has the official version which is followed by the lds church. The other versions are not official. I believe that Joseph knew that an official version needed to be written because of the confusion of what he said previously when asked about the first vision. And of course that official version is rich in detail whereas the others are not.
  9. People leave their churches all the time. They also leave their mosques etc. People often go through transitions because of new experiences. Mormons seem to make a big deal of it. But then, maybe catholics do too. I haven't seen it there. My relatives are catholic. I don't see any of them making a serious matter of it that they no longer go to mass. But mormons need to go to help groups, find support on the internet, speak of a crisis etc. If one no longer believes in something that they used to believe in they should think that this is logical and normal. We change. We progress. And sometimes we regress. Maybe mormon testimonies are a problem. If one as a surety of belief based on personal testimonies and experiences, and then reads something 'shocking' about church history etc, that testimony takes a broadside and it begins to sink. I have come to never trust mormon testimonies because the next week that person may lose it. How to treat people who have left the church? As if they have never left it. It shouldn't matter. One goes to church and the other doesn't. For two hours one goes to church and prepares for callings if they have one. And the other doesn't. They are occupied with other things. But there is still time to share a pizza.
  10. But in a previous post, you more or less did. Or the way you spun it, made it seem so. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/saints-v1/44-a-lamb-to-the-slaughter?lang=eng
  11. As I explained in a previous post: Hyrum had the gun. It was smuggled in by an outsider. Both Hyrum and Joseph were fathers. Would you have said no to the gun when it was offered? Hyrum was shot dead almost immediately when the mob was rushing up the stairs. Joseph reacted by picking up the gun and firing it into the mob. It misfired. And the rest is history. Once Joseph was dead....the other people in the jail were left alone and they returned to their families.
  12. I think that you are right. Unfortunately, our friend will not accept it. The poster has their own interpretation of lds history that has been taken from the more negative side of interpretations.
  13. No one saw a manuscript. And emma account is quite compelling. Put your head in a hat and write a book with your friend writing what you say on paper. And see what happens. It is an interesting point about the pens and paper. Let me put it this way. Lets say Joesph goes to the general store and buys 100 pieces of paper and five pens. He begins to write. Rough drafts, crumpled paper etc. He goes back to the store for 50 pieces of paper and another pen etc. Suspicious? Suddenly a book comes out and Joesph claims divine origin. What does the store clerk do? Remain silent? And lets just say that the clerk or store owner knew Joseph. A great starter for a conversation would be a simple question: So, Joe, why all the paper and pens?
  14. Was Dan there? Emma did not like polygamy nor did she like Brigham. She also had friends who went west. She only had to say: It's all a fraud. And the church is history. She didn't. The gun was smuggled in. It was in the possession of Hyrum. He was shot in the head and Joseph picked up the gun and fired the pea shooter because he saw his brother die. See Rough Stone Rolling page 549
  15. I think that you are a little out of date Every organization wants to keep their membership. What would an organization be without a membership. And I don't see anyone closing down questions about the lds church. People are free to read what they wish to read.I see no book burnings from salt lake. Of course dues must be paid. Without dues an organization will not survive. Every organization need money to survive and to grow. No problem there. Many members read Leonard Arrington's book in the 70s abut church history. It was pretty open about history. And now there are the JSP with much detailed information about Joesph Smith. And we also have Rough Stone Rolling from 2005 written by Bushman. People have less critical thinking skills these days. In the past, members in the US had huge personal libraries full of church books. And they read them. Many had BYs Journal of Discourses among other books. And old timers knew much about church history. It didn't matter because many people had strong personal testimonies built upon by spiritual experiences. It had very little to do with follow the prophet than with strong spiritual experiences that could not be explained. I had two. And this has kept one of my feet in the church door. People have been listening to podcasts for years and some have fallen away. Others have grown stronger. Here is the foundation: there is a book of mormon. How did it come about? Who wrote it? where were the pens and paper bought? Much paper needed to be used by the writer, not to mention feathered pens. Why did 11 people have a 'groupthink' testimony written inside the book. And many of these men never denied their testimony. And emma? Why did she allow so many people to head west...some good friends of hers if she knew of the fraud? And JS went to his death with his brother. No cool aid was past out for the groupthink suicide. I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. https://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Experience-HISTORY-LATTER-DAY-SAINTS/dp/0252062361
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