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Posts posted by readstoomuch

  1. No, it is not okay to have this, whether Ms Denison is really having to go through this or made it up.  This is all nasty business.  The next expected step would be for MormonStories to make this into a podcast where either the Church is having the Danites carry this out or covering up for the perpetrator.   Because the Church knows all the things that every member has ever done wrong. 

    Ms. Denison is also sitting out in a congregation filming when a person does a hit piece on a sexual abuser during testimony meeting.   

    Recently, Sterling Van Wagenen`s victim came on MormonStories and they called it a coverup by the LDS Church.  It actually seems to me that the Church system worked.  The Bishop found out about it, required that it be reported to the police, parents opted not to press charges, he was disfellowshipped.  The level of abuse is in question and he apparently abused other children later.   It`s a very sad story.  The victim doesn’t feel supported enough or receive counseling from the Church.  They didnt`t ask him to give his side of the story when the event happened (something probably many parents would want to avoid for their child).  I don’t know what the Church is supposed to do.  These are complicated stories with contradictions and possible manipulation for potential gain.  This is all my opinion, but the trial by court of public opinion is getting old.

  2. LisaAlu,

    I am that counselor that we try to get to renew your temple recommend in my ward.  Two of my kids have stopped going to church and one is getting a divorce.  My two younger ones are doing well at this point.  I think it is fine to say that you need more time or that you don’t feel ready right now.  You probably have to decide whether you want to then follow up with the bishop.  We try to respect people needing space.  There are worse things then drinking, but it does hinder the spirit.  

    I don’t think we ever know when our children are truly lost.  God loves them and loves you.  Our bishop is the most loving man around and honestly that is how bishops have treated me for the last 57 years.  The path and life does seem to go easier when we live the commandments, even though we don’t live them perfectly.  I certainly have my faults, but for me the WoW has not been one of them.  My children are good people/descent human beings.  We don’t know their path or what happens in the spirit world when we get there.  Make sure that you are doing the basics like reading the scriptures and praying morning and night.  Come Follow Me has been great for me.  This will help you feel the spirit and be able to be strengthened.  None of us actually knows how this is all works after this life, but I testify that Christ is real and that through his powerful atonement, we will all be made whole.  

    I really respect your being real and sincere, even if it is anonymous.  I hope you and your husband will feel His love as you find your way.  

    • Like 2

  3. Thank you for asking.  I have gone to the temple a few times, the latest yesterday.  There has been quite a bit of peace about it all.  The biggest problem seems to be about who to tell.  I still have not told my children.  My older kids who lost their mother to cancer would probably just flip out.  I think the two of them have finally started to come to grips with the death of their mother.  That grieving that you try to do with them, but they were 6 and 9 when it happened.  They are now 29 and 32.  My younger kids are just getting out on their own.  My youngest just barely turned 18 and is planning on going on a mission next fall.  I don't want to do anything that would change her mind or cause a freak out about the possibility of me dying.  So, there are about 5 people on the earth that know this.  

    As for the medical stuff.  I have to go into the oncologist every 2 months and have my blood drawn.  My immunoglobulins are low, so I can't get sick.  I have to be very careful and have about 20 containers of alcohol cleanser in every place you could think of.  My case seems to be complicated and I am supposed to go to Mayo Clinic or the University of Utah for another opinion.  There is the possibility of early treatment.  Not entirely without side effects.  There is an autoimmune condition that accompanies the leukemia.  Its all slow and you learn bits and pieces here and there.  There is a CLL support group and they have great information.  They all say they freak out and then they mostly do well.  Eventually their cancer becomes more advanced and then there can be some tough times.  I don't want to go through a bone marrow transplant even though it has the promise of a cure.  It has so many side effects and getting total body irradiation and a lethal dose of chemo does not sound fun.  My energy is decent, but I am only able to work about 3 days a week.  With my bishopric duties that is about all I can do.  Every one asks me what I have and I can honestly tell them that I have an autoimmune condition that suppresses my immune system.  I just don't tell them that the autoimmune condition comes from a cancer.    

    • Like 3

  4. 3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

    I believe Joseph Smith thought or maybe had some, revelation on how to instill the temple as a vehicle to exalt man. And I think he took a lot from the Bible. In the Bible the women are second class, or are taught the men are the head of the family, therefore the reason the temple was like it was. But everyone always knew that right? And therefore, my reasons for not always putting a lot of stock in the Bible being completely the word of God. Now we are seeing how those men's thoughts on the matter that helped write the Bible aren't always right. Because in many cases it's taken too far, almost to abuse or to abuse of women. 

    I've had very mixed feelings about the new change, one one hand it's the best thing ever, on the other, why wasn't the church leaders privy to the truth, that women have just as much of a conduit to God, she doesn't need a man to be with God. Of course, step back, maybe she still needs a man in this church to be exalted, okay back to square one. Or not, because most religions don't believe in exaltation or becoming Gods. 

    Wow, I'm rambling. Sorry.

    I think Valerie Hudsons article The Two Trees helps explain why the temple speaks of men and women in the ways they do.  Some of it being that Eve represented mankind in the physical aspects of our existence and Adam the spiritual side.  Then the symbolism that went with both.  We aren't as good at thinking through symbols or used to them.  Unfortunately, if the symbols are not pondered and explored they can lead people to think they are speaking negatively of women.  In a generation that basically has to interact with gadgets and numerous pieces of information, their attention span is different.  I find that with my own kids.  The temple changes, if I can get into the temple, will probably be appreciated by me.  The sessions were all full last Friday and Saturday.  

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  5. 53 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

    Somehow it felt like 3 and a half.  When is the next revelation going to come and cut it down more so we can spend more time with our families or do more useful things with our time on this planet?  

    just playing...I didn't show up

    The first part of the booklet we're supposed to use to teach at home is pretty terrible.  I hope it improves.  

    We decided to use it once a week to talk to our kids about the religion that their cousins and many of their friends adhere to.  We got off to a rocky start, with all sorts of adorable tangents.

    If you are talking about the first chapter of Come Follow Me for Individuals and Families.  I read the chapter with all of the scriptures and the talks yesterday morning before bishopric meeting and had a profound experience with it.  I read the bible verses in the ESV, though I am waiting for the Greek translation by Thomas Wayment to be available again from Deseret Book.  

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  6. I think the endowment as a vehicle is a good analogy.  There has always been a certain amount of elasticity about revelations and teachings in the Church.  You can always find a quote to fit your needs about things shouldn't change or that they change all the time.  I believe Brigham Young said he would rather follow a living prophet than a dead prophet.  I think he also said that he would take the words of the living oracles over the writings in all the books.  I also realize that Joseph Smith was the founding prophet and we rely on his vision, but just as he translated texts, modern prophets are translating his ideas into the medium of our time.  I am going to try and go to the temple tonite, but it sounds like I will like the changes.  I certainly believe that President Nelson is a prophet.  

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  7. It would really be nice to put this behind us, especially after this long.  I don't think Dan was treated well from what I can tell, but how long does the feud go on.  Whoever is still having the feud. With Midgley, I met him at FAIR conferences and I usually read his articles.  They could be longer than some and they were definitely more accusatory and confrontational than many.  I have met Greg Smith and talked to him.  He is very capable and I would believe what he said.  If Midgley is blowing this out of proportion a lot of old articles would have to be reread in that context.  

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  8. This is not the venue that I started talking about having a slow form of cancer called Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia.  It has caused me fatigue if I started looking back at things.  So far things are stable and I am not on treatment.  My participating in this subject is also about me having to figure out where I am going to spend my time and energy.  I try to spend as much of it as I can with my children.  I can`t tell them because it just isn’t the right time.  Their lives are just changing so much.  They need stability.  I just can`t read or work as much as I used to.  How much to work?   That`s a big one.  I don’t think it would go well (bored to death-that’s kind of funny) if I stopped working altogether.  So, I am looking for the best places to read about the gospel that are intellectually stimulating and faith promoting.  I am looking for opportunities to help my children become cemented to Christ and his gospel.  

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  9. I love what Dan writes.  I regularly look at The Interpreter website and give money to them Early FARMS and MI Review of Books were always top notch and appreciated.  It did hit me as polemical many times and even though I enjoyed it, I did wish for more topics and views.  I get that now and some really great podcasts from Blair.  I subscribe to the MI publications.  Also. BYU Studies.  In addition to those, Dialogue and Suntone.  Sunstone just sent me a letter requesting donations to save the ship so to speak.  The gist I got from the letter is that it won`t stay open without a further substantial influx of funds.  A letter from Dialogue was not written to that extreme, but it does seem like they may be in a pinch for funds.  I subscribe to the Interpreter, BYU Studies, MI and in the past Sunstone and Dialogue.  I am really struggling with continuing my subscription and support to Sunstone and Dialogue.  Especially Sunstone.  I just don’t find Sunstone faith promoting much of the time.  So I have beefs with others than MI and Dan.  I want them both.  What I really want is to stop losing youth in the Church.  A Living Faith Faith Book series have been great books for my younger kids.  I read Sam Browns First Principles and Ordinances with my youngest son before he left on his mission.  My youngest daughter has already read all of the series.  I am so impressed with this work by MI.  I have had some personal conversations with Blair and Dan before.  Short conversations, they don’t really know me, but they both have helped built my faith.  Saving the youth and doubters.  As a member of a bishopric and with two inactive children, that is what I am looking for.  There is a place for all.  A brand new addition to the resources I have is Elder Hafen`s, Faith is Not Blind.  

    PS.  My oldest son is reaching out to the Church in small ways to try and save his marriage.  He is actually coming back to Christ after being brain washed by secularism.  Secularism and agnosticism seems to be the big battle we have with our youth and those having a faith crisis.  

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  10. I just watched I Can Only Imagine with my kids.  We all cried and it is an excellent show.  My dad died at my age 25 years ago.  Here I am his age and diagnosed with a cancer that can be slow and  I don’t think I should tell my kids.  I’m crying about the movie, my dad, my first wife and of course about me.

    I’m really torn up about what I should be doing in my life.  I worked very hard this month in my business and my bishop was out of town this month two Sundays.  I really enjoy my calling but it takes a toll on me.  Energy is the thing I don’t have an endless supply of.  Also time. I don’t want to be nothing, but trying to figure out the balance is challenging.

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  11. I think you talk to the Bishop and tell him how you feel.  It is reasonable to be able to participate in Church.  

    As far as the LDS Tools app.  If you asked someone to do something during the church block, it can hard for the clerks or bishopric to respond.  The three hours can be crazy with the requests, interviews, problems, teaching emergencies, etc. 

    These types of situations always go better when you have a good attitude.  

    • Like 1

  12. 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

    From a strictly visceral standpoint, I couldn't care less that she joined another church. What I find bothersome is her continued public and vocal faultfinding of the Church of Jesus Christ and the inspired and authorized servants of God who lead it. Maybe I'm missing something, but that appears not to have been an issue in this disciplinary council.

    This.   That is what bothers me also.  I would like to think that she has been treated kindly and maybe she will tone down the rhetoric.  She can be very warm and complimentary of her Church experience.  I think that always goes over better in any situation.  I am guessing in other high profile cases that they weren't always that way.  

    Sometimes I really like Gina and her podcast.  Then there is vitriol (swearing, crude on several occasions if I remember right).  

    I haven't listened to her podcast about an abuse case in West Virginia.  There are far too many abuse cases and I hate that it would ever happen.  Interviews keep coming up over and over as the problem according to many social justice types.  My daughter doesn't want to have interviews with her parents.  She says she would never talk to the bishop about her problems with her parents there.  I started a youth temple recommend interview on Sunday and was asking if the girl lives the law of chastity.  She asked what that meant, I basically said the commandments that she is taught in Church and by her parents.  She kept pressing me and I said that these are really questions to talk about with your parents and maybe they should be there.  Then she said she thought the answer was no and started to confess to me.  I stopped the interview and said that I shouldn't talk about those with her, but her parents or the bishop.  She wanted to talk to the bishop, without her parents.  I really love her family.  Her father is inactive/unbelieving, but nice.  Another inactive/unbelieving father won't let us interview or progress any of his children in the Church. In both cases the rest of the family is trying to stay engaged.  It was a very delicate situation and I hope that I did well.  Not that I was inappropriate, but that the girl felt like it was all in a loving, faithful manner.  I hope it was overall a positive experience.  Much like my interviews were over the last 50 years.  I was trying to think of a negative one and I really couldn't.  Repentance was always a wonderful feeling.  

    • Like 3

  13. I would love to talk to others and I understand that you have been there.  My cancer may be a little different.  I may not be on treatment for several years.  My life expectancy is about 12 years.  My oncologist thinks that should be longer with new treatments.  I have to be careful to not get sick because I don't make as many antibodies, even if I am not on chemotherapy.  Lots of hand sanitizer.  Most of the new treatments for chronic lymphocytic leukemia are now oral agents that are not as immunosuppressive, but cost about 14,000 a month.  The few people that I have told do treat you differently when they find out.  Its that look and being treated like I am going to die tomorrow.  

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  14. Been pretty busy.  I don’t seem to have as much energy and right now I am not being treated.  It seems like I am stable, but immunosuppressed.  I haven’t told anybody in my ward or my children.  The same with my business partners.  Not sure I will. When I hear someone had a birthday I wonder if I will live as long as them.  I have been to the oncologist about three times.  There are doctors that treat only my kind of cancer, so I may be going to Mayo or U of U.  

    Its nice to know anyone is thinking about me.  In my support group I seem to be kind of boring compared to most, so that is probably good.  Yes God has been with me.

    • Like 3

  15. David Bokovoy seems to be about social justice issues.  If I remember the daughter that went on a mission came out lgbt.  That seems to be what led him out.  The rest of the family stopped going after the November 2015 policy.  It sounds like he had been going by himself.  There are some Facebook posts that would go along with this.  Granted his take on scriptures in general is different than mine, but I always appreciate what he has to say.  He also is much more measured, even if it was on Mormon Stories.  Between social issues and outrage about them, it seems like it really doesn’t matter what the Church teaches.  The social issues have become their gospel.  I think often because of how they were taught to look at the world as LDS members.  They want to do good, even if the organization that taught them about morals disagrees with the social issue they have become indoctrinated in.  I would have never guessed in the 70s that things would be like they are.    

  16. I was on Bill`s Mormondiscussionpodcast site.  He had a list of 20 (25?) questions that he said his stake president couldn’t answer.  So, I looked at the first two.  The first one was about Lucy Walker who was married to Joseph at the age of 16 or 17.  She had been living in his house.  I think the best answer was Lucy Walkers words herself.  They were for the most part reaffirming in faith to me.  The question of cohabitation always seems to be the big one and there is some information.  None of it entirely convincing by itself, but certainly a possibility.  Stayed faithful her whole life.  I got into the Mormonism Feminist Houswives Year of Polygamy by looking up Lucy Walker and the outrage that people can have is certainly amazing.  There is occasionally someone calling for reason and just trying to understand, not judge using modern standards.  There is also quite a bit about the second question, which was a revelation supposedly to John Taylor about the New and Everlasting Covenant never being revoked.  It is somewhat questionable whether it was a real revelation and whether it was specifically talking about polygamy.  Also, was it ever going to be submitted to the process as the other revelations?  Neither one was a yes or no answer and it is obvious to me after indulging Bill a little over the last few years that no answer will really satisfy him.  It really seems to be about picking the Church apart for its flaws historically and with social issues.  We always seem to do wrong.  It is not surprising that he was excommunicated and one of the main answers about why still excommunicate people, is that we still have standards and we do enforce them, as imperfect as we are at it sometimes.  

    • Like 2
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