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About readstoomuch

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  1. David Bokovoy seems to be about social justice issues. If I remember the daughter that went on a mission came out lgbt. That seems to be what led him out. The rest of the family stopped going after the November 2015 policy. It sounds like he had been going by himself. There are some Facebook posts that would go along with this. Granted his take on scriptures in general is different than mine, but I always appreciate what he has to say. He also is much more measured, even if it was on Mormon Stories. Between social issues and outrage about them, it seems like it really doesn’t matter what the Church teaches. The social issues have become their gospel. I think often because of how they were taught to look at the world as LDS members. They want to do good, even if the organization that taught them about morals disagrees with the social issue they have become indoctrinated in. I would have never guessed in the 70s that things would be like they are.
  2. I was on Bill`s Mormondiscussionpodcast site. He had a list of 20 (25?) questions that he said his stake president couldn’t answer. So, I looked at the first two. The first one was about Lucy Walker who was married to Joseph at the age of 16 or 17. She had been living in his house. I think the best answer was Lucy Walkers words herself. They were for the most part reaffirming in faith to me. The question of cohabitation always seems to be the big one and there is some information. None of it entirely convincing by itself, but certainly a possibility. Stayed faithful her whole life. I got into the Mormonism Feminist Houswives Year of Polygamy by looking up Lucy Walker and the outrage that people can have is certainly amazing. There is occasionally someone calling for reason and just trying to understand, not judge using modern standards. There is also quite a bit about the second question, which was a revelation supposedly to John Taylor about the New and Everlasting Covenant never being revoked. It is somewhat questionable whether it was a real revelation and whether it was specifically talking about polygamy. Also, was it ever going to be submitted to the process as the other revelations? Neither one was a yes or no answer and it is obvious to me after indulging Bill a little over the last few years that no answer will really satisfy him. It really seems to be about picking the Church apart for its flaws historically and with social issues. We always seem to do wrong. It is not surprising that he was excommunicated and one of the main answers about why still excommunicate people, is that we still have standards and we do enforce them, as imperfect as we are at it sometimes.
  3. The debate and doubts LDS and young people seem to have is about whether God even exists or not. An argument for why people of faith should work together and not argue too much over Calvinism or other points of theology.
  4. readstoomuch

    And now, Gina Colvin faces a Disciplinary Council.

    I have listened to Gina off and on for years. She has some pretty good guests. In my opinion, she has always been combative, negative, condemning and sometimes just mean about the Church. I have wondered how she could stay in the Church with those kind of attitudes. I didn’t know about her accepting baptism in another church. Her experiences have been profoundly positive in the Church, especially when she was growing up. I want there to be a place for all kinds of people in the Church, but where is the line where it goes too far. Gina crossed that line in my mind. Bill Reel did not cross that line at first, then he got more and more negative. Then he crossed the line. Same with John Dehlin. It seems like people in their situation are trying to push that line to see how far they can go. Then they act surprised and angry. Then ther is the negative publicity, which seems to be what they really want. The liberal crowd argue that the Church enforcing some kind of boundary is not helpful and does more harm than good. I think that we should all try to be tolerant of a wide number of beliefs and opinions, especially if they are personal and not publicized or taught in Church. Publicizing and teaching in Church raise the bar for me in what I expect people to say. In Church I expect building faith and fellowship. When a person leads others away, that is particularly egregious and needs to be enforced. I blame John Dehlin and Kate Kelly for at least part of my older kids leaving the Church. That is probably a whole other debate and I will decline into getting into that in further detail.
  5. readstoomuch

    Diagnosed with cancer on Tuesday

    Jerry Ray, I am sorry to hear that. It is hard to face these situations. You are doing so with a very good spirit and example. Thanks for commenting and I wish you the best.
  6. readstoomuch

    David Bokovoy on Mormon Stories

    I listened to about 40 minutes at work when I had a chance. He sounds very devoted to the Church, Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith as important, spiritual sources of truth. He seems to say that the Book of Abraham and to some extent the BOM are apocryphal, but truthful witnesses of the gospel. If you have read his book, you know that it is nuanced, but he is an intellectual that has made the Church still work for him. Then his daughter came out as gay. That added to the November policy pushed him to a point where he can no longer support the Church. I think he made the analogy of still believing that the Kingdom of God is relevant, but the Church has some real problems. I really like him and I didn't listen to all of it. Having seen John Dehlin, it could be a many hour interview. Its still hard not to like David and its kind of like someone breaking up with you, but with the nicest manner ever. In other words his relationship with the Church is ruptured or changed with these issues, but as cordial as possible. .
  7. readstoomuch

    Diagnosed with cancer on Tuesday

    Thanks every one. Didn’t think about it too much today, so it was a good day. Right now I am not planning on telling my children for a bit. We will see any of that changes. There are some good treatments coming out and if my chromosome studies are not aggressive, I may not need treatment for awhile.
  8. readstoomuch

    Diagnosed with cancer on Tuesday

    Tuesday the oncologist called to tell me that I have Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia or CLL. It was found during my annual physical. He says it is slow and many people live quite awhile. I am much younger than most patients are when they are diagnosed. The 5 year survival rate is 83%. The average life expectancy is 12 years for someone my age (56). My wife isn't taking it real well and my older kids mother died of cancer at age 31. I haven't told my four children or the rest of my family. There are a number of new treatments and reasons to be hopeful. Probably the hardest part of all of it is the unknown. I am not the most well known person around here. I read much more than I ever contribute. Partially out of time commitments. I have been in the bishopric for a year now. Lots of things might be changing. Thanks for listening.
  9. We have had several brethren be primary pianists. I think there is some wide variance of callings someone can do. Heck I have done a bunch. I like some more than others, but try to do the best I can. I have been in stake callings where there wasn’t much to do. Sometimes we have been happy just to have an organist-man or woman. Some people will not accept any calling and that can be tough on a ward.
  10. 1/9 is my count. I have seen a few come home a few months early, like 2-4, which I didn’t count. This is for two wards I know about.
  11. readstoomuch

    Spider-Man Has Left the Church

    All threads concerning the validity of Joseph Smith seem to come down to polygamy and that one of them was 14 years old. That can be said in a quick statement. That 14 year old was Helen Mar Kimball and her story is much more complicated than that sentence. When people hear this about this 14 year old, they assume he had sex with her or at least that is the implication. Never mind that there is not much evidence that intercourse ever happened or that Heber C Kimball approached Joseph Smith. Helen`s devoted her life to the Church and her son became an apostle (Orson Whitney). That can`t be packed into a little blurb. Richard Bushman gives the strong opinion that Joseph Smiths polygamy does not invalidate all of his other life’s work. Yet its an obstacle. So what are we to do? Millennials have a short attention span and they can`t bother with newspapers or extensive research. Terryl Givens laments that he has to do podcasts to get his work out as many will not be exposed to his work otherwise. There does need to be a compact, hard hitting response to the CES Letter. Entertaining, detailed and readability are paramount for the response. The fact that the CES Letter speaks so well to millennials does point to Rummel`s success and ingenuity. Maybe another millennial with the chops can craft the response. The CES Letter is not going away, as much as I wish it would.
  12. This has always been interesting to me. The arguments go back and forth. There does seem to be some heart benefits of a slight amount of wine every day. I think other food substances may be able to do the same thing. I think that we like studies that “prove” what we believe about the Word of Wisdom. There will be other articles claiming the benefits of alcohol or coffee. I think you abstain from these because of your faith in God. If there are health benefits, then that is a bonus, but not the only reason to keep the commandment. Also, not a good reason to change what one consumes. Science is trying to define issues like this, but it is far from proven for many, many issues, including alcohol.
  13. readstoomuch

    D-News Reports 63,500 Missionaries Are Serving

    This is the coming home and leaving time of year. We have had four come home and two leave this summer from our ward so far. We have two more coming home in two weeks. It would probably help to compare October to October. I don't know what the real number would be and maybe it is dropping comparatively, but a good number of people are moving around the board in the summer. My son came home on July 7th. I do think the number of sisters serving is going up, but I don't know what that number is.
  14. I purchased the streaming, which I usually do. It made me make a new account because I couldn't remember the old one. There are parts that have the same information, so it wouldn't take my email and keeps trying to change it, when I login to correct it. I have tried to contact FairMormon. It says I haven't filled out each field (even though I have). There is no phone or direct email that I could write, so I don't know what to do. They have been sending me the newsletter/blog for years, so they should know how I am. Any ideas?
  15. readstoomuch

    Bill Reel announces he faces impending Bishop's Court

    I have found myself not feeling like I should have to respond ad nauseam to negative ideas. Most of the time I don’t post then. With Bill, like most critics, the answer is long and detailed. I’ll take two items though. The Church as an abusive parent. I find that there have been issues with the Church, but by and far very nourishing and supportive. Helen Mar Kimball. 14 year old wife of Joseph Smith. Helen Mar Kimballs story is far more complex than the one liner about how terrible Joseph was. Not a bunch of evidence about sex, etc.