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drums12

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Everything posted by drums12

  1. Apparently Dehlin's popularity has waned since being excommunicated.
  2. I hope members of the Q12 aren't poorly versed on the content of the essays. I would hope they would spend time studying, pondering, praying,and seeking revelation about issues which have led to thousands leaving in recent years.
  3. from http://mormanity.blogspot.com/2009/10/elder-jeffrey-r-holland-speaks-out-on.html Some critics have howled about the horrific, cynical dishonesty of Elder Holland in holding up a book that they think is not the real book. The confusion is understandable since it appears that the Church owns two similar books, one that is the original and one that is a similar edition that had the same page dog-eared like the book that Hyrum had. This was made clear in a Deseret News story on the talk and the book. The vitriol and name calling in this case says much about some of our critics. Such anger, such anxiousness to criticize, such unwillingness to even wonder if it was just a mistake. But the mistake appears to have been an earlier Church news story that showed the copy, not the original that Elder Holland was holding. I think it's fair to grant that Elder Holland asked for the original to be brought to him, and whether it was the original or not, I think it's fair to accept that he was not knowingly lying about the book. The story is true and the point he makes about Hyrum and Joseph turning to it in their final moments still adds to their witness of the Book of Mormon, regardless of which of the two similar books Elder Holland had on the pulpit with him.
  4. I see you are using all the progressive, NOM, EX-MO jargon psychobabble
  5. Geez Bill...we get it. You have made a cottage industry of making church leaders offenders for a word. I've got plenty of things that bother me about the Church, its history as well as current practices. But seriously, it seems like you sit around data mining everything LDS related to find something you can get mileage out of.
  6. Man you are great at setting up straw men
  7. Uhhhh no. Your argument only makes sense if you accept the premise that there is some social contract a la Elizabeth Warren. I don't subscribe to collectivism.
  8. I'll pass. Please disabuse yourself of this fallacy. https://mises.org/library/no-tax-breaks-are-not-subsidies http://reason.com/archives/2011/05/17/the-difference-between-a-tax-b
  9. Tax breaks ARE NOT subsidies...I get so tired of this fallacy. Letting an individual or organization keep its own property is not subsidizing it.
  10. Seriously....quite making everyone an "offender for a word"
  11. I was talking to a close friend the other day who believes in the Restoration, the Book of Mormon, etc. He is very disillusioned with the modern Church for various reasons. As I mentioned my difficulty reconciling plural marriage, he said "but there is no proof Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. There are affidavits in which he denied it. There are no contemporary documents from his lifetime." I didn't wish to argue the point, but I think he is wrong. To my thinking, his belief requires a conspiracy of epic proportions. Dozens of early Saints would have to have been in on the lie. Still, let's just assume for a moment that he is correct. What are the implications for the modern Church? Would not Brigham Young and his successors have been adulterers, and thus unworthy to hold the Priesthood? What about eternal marriage? How do we separate the idea of eternal marriage from section 132, which clearly teaches plural marriage? Any other implications?
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