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      Contact Us Broken   09/27/2016

      Users, It has come to our attention that the contact us feature on the site is broken.  Please do not use this feature to contact board admins.  Please go through normal channels.  If you are ignored there then assume your request was denied. Also if you try to email us that email address is pretty much ignored.  Also don't contact us to complain, ask for favors, donations, or any other thing that you may think would annoy us.  Nemesis

Five Solas

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About Five Solas

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    Senior Member: Divides Heaven & Earth

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  1. Let me get this straight, the whole thread up to now has been based on a link you never intended? And then you follow this revelation up with three paragraphs of incoherence! And we're supposed to chalk this up to what? To day-drinking on your part, poptart? --Erik ________________________________________ See your iPhone camera flashin' Please step back, it's my style you're crampin' "You here for long?" Oh no, I'm just passin' "Do you wanna drink?" No, thanks for askin' --Jax Jones, 2016
  2. Will idols ever make a comeback?!? --Erik PS. Idolatry, simply put, is the worship of creation instead of the Creator (Romans 1:25). So fear not. Religion is alive & well--in our sports stadiums, in our homes with two-car garages, in our retirement accounts, et cetera, etc. ...
  3. I think that's a really good question, Duncan. If I were to offer a hypothesis, I would point to the administration of the late LDS president, Gordon B. Hinckley, ~ 20 years ago. I suspect his public prevarications on long-settled matters of LDS doctrine planted seeds that weren't healthy for the LDS Church organization. In just a few moments on a talk show and in a published interview or two -- it suddenly no longer mattered what you thought of Snow's couplet or the underlying doctrines found in the King Follett Discourse. That challenged a lot of members' thinking and opened doors subsequent administrations haven't closed. A lot of keyboard strokes have been incurred by LDS apologists attempting to walk back or at least soften what Hinckley actually said. But those seeds took root and now there's a harvest to be had. A harvest of tares, some might say. --Erik __________________________________________ This is a crisis I knew had to come, Destroying the balance I'd kept. Doubting, unsettling and turning around, Wondering what will come next. --Joy Division "Passover"
  4. I'm not sure you understood the article, boblloyd91. The author tells us Evangelicals have drifted away from Bible exposition and embraced other things. That's the root of the problem from his perspective (and I think he has a point). But LDS don't have a tradition of Bible exposition. For contemporary LDS, the Bible is always held at arm's length--"...as far as it has been translated correctly." Morality overlap between LDS and Christian Evangelicals shares a superficial motivation/basis at best. So "voting patterns" aside -- do you think there's any lesson or application for LDS in what Davidson writes? Based on your short response, I'm guessing you'll say, "Not so much." And if I'm right about that, then enjoy your Schadenfreude. ;0) --Erik
  5. All this has played out on this forum & its predecessor since I've been paying attention (the past ~ dozen years). LDS Church growth has stalled and the argument has shifted from an "us vs. them" to -- what is "us?" What does it mean to be "Mormon?" Should you still get a temple recommend if you don't think the Book of Mormon describes literal, historical events? (A question that would split LDS who participate here right down the middle.) If you, as a committed Christian Protestant (or take your pick) want to reach LDS -- what is it exactly you're arguing against? LDS are increasingly unsure of any ground beneath their feet. So it makes sense there would be less arguments against LDS doctrines when the whole LDS theological landscape is turning to Jello. Some LDS go as far as to deny they even have a theology! Talk about making arguments moot. --Erik
  6. I largely agree with it. "An emphasis on Bible exposition" feels essential to me, and those who have jettisoned that in favor of other things--the parable of The Wise and Foolish Builders (Matthew 7:24-27) appears to fit the situation... I'd be interested if any LDS see implication/application for their own faith, as the LDS Church membership growth stalls (e.g., 72% attrition by age 20, courtesy of MormonLeaks) and as wards consolidate and close, especially in urban areas (e.g., Seattle). Or will this just be an opportunity for a little Schadenfreude? ;0) --Erik PS. Why did you title this thread "...White Evangelical America"? (I'm just now realizing you did that.) Unless I completely missed it, the author makes no mention of racial identity. Really curious what your purpose was with that little addition, poptart. _________________________________ I would offer up a brick To the back of your head, boy If I were Cain --16 Horsepower "Black Soul Choir"
  7. And yet it feels a little ironic. The Catholic faith is a global faith (never mind the meaning of 'catholic'). So pitting the Occident (which gave rise to ideologies like Communism and Nazism together with murder & atrocity on a scale unparalleled in human history) against the Orient--well, it just seems like you guys haven't thought through the implication. Replace Storm Rider's word "things" (his last sentence in the OP) with "people." Do you still agree? And btw, "things" makes no sense in the context--we really are talking about people. There's no way to soften this. --Erik PS. And if you had to share a life raft and it was a choice between Bush & Obama vs. that other fellow... ______________________________________ There is neither Jew nor Greek There is neither slave nor free There is no male and female For you are all one in Christ Jesus --Galatians 3:28 (ESV)
  8. It would be interesting to know what the long term effect will be for the young persons involved. Will events like this help the LDS Church with its 72% attrition rate by age 20 (statistic courtesy of MormonLeaks)? Will acting out the Book of Mormon seal upon their minds that the people & events described therein are nonfiction (the tapir/horse confusion notwithstanding)? Or would it be sufficient that the kids enjoyed a few days outdoors and built some fun and pleasant memories? (Okay, maybe not the one they burned at the stake.) --Erik
  9. You've really labored to make my assertion seem foolish, smac97. It's a matter of ethics, not of law or divine decree (although some day I expect stronger public disclosure requirements will be a matter of law). When you receive a good thing, you have some responsibility--to be a good steward, and to be accountable for that stewardship. Think of it as a dictate of conscience. And the LDS Church (and many other churches and non-profits) receives much good from all levels of government, starting with tax relief. I've probably derailed my own poor thread long enough (although that Tribune article was certainly insightful & worth some discussion). Time permitting, I'll start a thread about the LDS Church and notions of openness and transparency (and why LDS leaders seem to be about as fond of them as the vampire is for daylight). --Erik _______________________________ Sing your life Walk right up to the microphone And name All the things you love All the things that you loathe Oh, sing your life --Morrissey, 1991
  10. I'm saying it's the right and reasonable thing to do, Jane_Doe. Where there's public benefits there should be public disclosure. And they should do it voluntarily, much like previous links I shared (Gates Foundation, Downtown Cornerstone Church). Out of genuine curiosity - why do LDS think greater openness and transparency would be toxic to their church's agenda? --Erik
  11. I'm saying that non-profits which receive tax benefits from the rest of us have a responsibility to disclose so that we can understand what we're paying for. Here's an example of the disclosure & level of detail mandated for public companies (link to Amazon's investor relations SEC filings page). Take the first document you find. Note that in addition to financial disclosure, the number of employees, executive compensation and many other statistics are provided. That's pretty good, isn't it? You just learned quite a lot about Amazon. Should organizations that receive direct public benefits (e.g., tax relief) not be required to provide similar information? By what logic, ksfisher? --Erik PS. Of course, many do: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-Information/Financials
  12. That churches are entitled to special tax benefits and/or are entitled to keeping their revenues & membership a secret--it doesn't say that anywere, Jane_Doe. Intentionally or not, you're making my point. :0) --Erik
  13. That's not it at all, ksfisher. Transparency isn't about assuaging or converting critics. Transparency is about obligation--obligation the LDS Church owes to the broader public, which bestows upon churches certain benefits--particularly the benefit of not having revenues, income and/or property subject to tax, as many other entities are subjected. The day is coming when things kept in darkness (e.g., revenues, assets, membership) will be brought to light. And what will you say then, ksfisher? --Erik _________________________________ When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun --The Clash "The Guns of Brixton"
  14. No, he won't make you naughty. But the Nietzsche faithful do suffer from occasional bouts of acute paranoia, see themselves as victims of witch hunts, etc. You need to decide if you really want that in your life. I wouldn't recommend it. ;0) Has it really been 4 years since we had that spot of fun? --Erik ________________________________________ Mirror in the bathroom, recompense For all my crimes of self defense Cures you whisper make no sense Drift gently into mental illness --English Beat, 1980
  15. Probably merits its own thread, but I'm always struck by the fragility of the LDS Holy Spirit. He's forever being chased way, driven away, and in this case--he actually gets eaten. Like some twisted Tom & Jerry episode where Jerry gets the worst of it. One can't help but think Mormonism would be better served with a bigger God. --Erik ____________________________________________ A boy was born 'mid little things, Between a little world and sky- And dreamed not of the cosmic rings 'Round which the circling planets fly. He lived in little works and thoughts, Where little ventures grow and plod, And paced and plowed his little plots, And prayed unto his little God. But as the mighty system grew, His faith grew faint with many scars; The Cosmos widened in his view- But God was lost among His stars. Another boy in lowly days, As he, to little things was born, But gathered lore in woodland ways, And from the glory of the morn. As wider skies broke on his view, God greatened in his growing mind; Each year he dreamed his God anew, And left his older God behind. He saw the boundless scheme dilate, In star and blossom, sky and clod; And as the universe grew great, He dreamed it for a greater God. --MC 900 Ft. Jesus, 1989