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rockpond

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About rockpond

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    Mormon Libertarian

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  1. BYU’s police department had been told that they are subject to GRAMA laws. We should soon have the unredacted report from the Denson-Bishop case along with the recordings. https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/07/13/byu-police-should-be/
  2. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    Yes, other talks have been edited. But only Elder Poelman’s address, which had a decidedly Fowler stage 4/5 message, was rewritten so dramatically that he needed to go back into the Tabernacle to give the new talk complete with a “cough track” to make it seem as if it wasn’t redone. Also, it isn’t correlation that makes me believe that the Brethren want to keep members in Fowler stage 3 faith, it is how they are correlating the teachings. I’ll add that, in addition to the teachings I have previously identified, the temple recommend interview itself promotes a Fowler stage 3 faith. Consider, for example, the reaction of many on this board to attempts by struggling members to reinterpret those TR questions to work with a stage 4/5 faith. Any attempt at adapting those questions to fit something beyond stage 3 is most often met with rejection in discussions amongst many members.
  3. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    I disagree that the Brethren are hoping that their messages will be re-interpreted to be adaptable to a higher stage of faith. Too much work has gone into decades of correlating and de-emphasizing the complexities of our faith. They have spent decades trying to build a stage 3 faith narrative. Elder Poelman once tried to teach of a stage 5 faith in general conference. We all know what happened there with his talk being erased from history and a new once recorded in its place. President Uchtdorf was probably the closest we had to a modern Poelman in terms of promoting advanced stages of faith... and I believe that’s why he was removed from the FP.
  4. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    There is no inherent power in the teachings of our prophet and apostles? I disagree. And that some members manage to move into stages of faith that are beyond stage 3, doesn’t mean that those messages I identified aren’t stage 3 messages. For me, those teachings (the ones I identified) were principles that I had to reject to be able to move beyond a stage 3 faith Accepting those three teachings at face value locks you into stage 3. Are you expecting me to believe that when the Brethren send those messages out to church members what they are actually hoping for is that members will reject or re-interpret them so that they can move into a stage 4-5 faith?
  5. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    An unfair and unfounded comparison. If you want to cast judgment on podcasters or members who listen to those podcasters, you ought to be observing what they actually do, not making over-generalized and baseless conclusions. Show some evidence not just your bias against them.
  6. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    You didn’t answer my question but that’s okay, I find your position on this to be unsupportable... simply a cheap attack on podcasters, many of whom have noble motivations.
  7. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    Yes, people in stages 4, 5, and 6 can take those teachings and make them fit within a stage 4/5/6 faith. But those phrases don’t encourage advancement from stage 3, they encourage members to stay in stage 3. All true or all a fraud is decidedly anti-stage 4. Being told to just “trust us”, follow the prophet, and stay in the boat doesn’t inherently help one into stage 4 or beyond. It tells one that the way to remain safe in their salvation is to maintain a stage 3 faith.
  8. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    The podcasters aren't claiming to receive revelation, preach, nor administer ordinances. Are we, as Latter-day Saints, not permitted to seek knowledge and learning from anyone other than those who have the keys? Should we only read book, listen to panels, and watch documentaries that are published through the Brethren? Listening to a podcast is just a means of study and learning. I'm not sure why you feel that it somehow comes between an individual and the Lord.
  9. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    Perhaps you would like to explain how "follow the prophet", all true or all fraud, and "trust us" messages fit with the openness to complexity and awareness of conflicts in Stage 4? Or, the "complex understanding of a multidimensional, interdependent "truth" that cannot be explained by any particular statement" of Stage 5?
  10. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    The part above that I put in bold is an unfounded conclusion on your part: Listening to a podcast to gain knowledge, insight, and a different perspective is not equivalent to letting the podcaster become ones advocate and spokesperson. You'll have to provide some additional evidence to support that leap.
  11. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    Perhaps I have misunderstood what Bernard is saying. He seems to feel that we see it "played out regularly here" but I am not aware of anyone here who is putting a man (apostle or podcaster) between them and the Lord.
  12. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    Where have you seen someone wanting to put a podcaster between themselves and Jesus? Can you give me an example of this because I've been listening to LDS themed podcasts for years, I've been involved in online podcast communities, and I have friends and family members who listen as well... and the idea you are suggesting seems completely foreign to me.
  13. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    I don't know of anyone who wants a podcaster, bishop, stake president, apostle, or prophet to stand between them and Jesus. I would hope that nobody feels such a need.
  14. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    I agree... if you are at stage 4 or 5, you'll hear and interpret messages at that stage of faith. But when the Brethren preach messages such as "follow the prophet", all true or all a fraud, and "trust us" they are teaching a message to STAY at stage 3. Those are stage 3 ideals. Are there members in stage 4 and 5? Yes. Will they hear and interpret those messages differently? Yes. Do correlated church materials teach a stage 3 belief? Yes. Do the Brethren want members to move beyond a stage 3 faith? I don't think they do.
  15. rockpond

    "Faith Crisis" support group?

    Nope. I don’t think you could find a Mormon-themed podcast listener who would agree with such a conclusion. Although, if a podcast better led someone to Jesus, that wouldn’t be a bad thing.
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