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kllindley

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About kllindley

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  1. I want to be clear that I don't think his concert attire directly means anything about his worthiness or testimony. My point was much more about the appearance of his intentions, heavily influenced by a review of the Believer Documentary that revealed he relied on commentary and interviews with Dehlin. Maybe no other member would attribute any meaning to those two data points, but the fact that this article showed up in my Google feed immediately after I read the gushing review seemed meaningful to me.
  2. Thank you for sharing this. It does clear up a few things: 1. The only negative response he cited was that some people told him his efforts will make more youth gay. I haven't seen that criticism discussed publicly. It seems that he wants to paint any opposition as radical and fanatic. 2. I wonder what it says about his approach that "things are getting worse" since LoveLoud 2017. Has the Church been more hateful or discriminatory in the last 12 months? What other factors could explain the fact that nothing is better for LGBT youth in Utah following something as "successful" as last year's festival? 3. Reynolds continues to misrepresent both LDS doctrine and scientific concensus on sexuality and identity. Whether this is deliberate or just demonstrates a continued effort to remain ignorant is still unclear.
  3. Could you explain how you see "single cause" as so different from "driving force?" That seems like a distinction without a difference. Wouldn't you day that from your narrative, "Mormonism" is the factor without which, you and all the others would never have been suicidal? How is that not falling into the trap of attributing suicidality to a cause which could lead vulnerable individuals to see their own experiences as part of an inevitable shared story? I completely disagree that sexual orientation is ever a cause for suicide. That's every bit as reckless and untrue as blaming Mormonism. The point though is that while your shared experiences are certainly valid and meaningful to you, it is impossible to separate those experiences from the narrative through which you choose to interpret and communicate those experiences. It isn't that I disbelieve your experience. It's that I don't automatically accept the interpretation or narrative you've placed on them. Especially when that narrative is not acknowledged, but rather claimed as fact. If you mean the article itself, then either you didn't read it, didn't understand it, or believe Jacob is lying. If you mean the impact of the portion I chose to quote in my post, I apologize. This is a very interesting comment. I have a hard time believing that you actually see these two examples as equivalent. Does hearing a Mormon share their belief in the Restoration, or their testimony of the Book of Mormon, or their experience of feeling the Holy Ghost confirm the Divinity of the Family Proclamation lead you to "believe and accept" the truth of those things? Or do you accept that these may be our sincere, but mistaken interpretations of our spiritual experiences? Do you think that any Mormon here expects you to believe God spoke to us just because we claim it? But if I say that I respect a gay person's experience of suicidality and accept that he genuinely believes that Mormonism is the "driving force," while simultaneously believing that reality is more complex than this explanation, I'm being unfair and rebuffing?
  4. And I think this falls squarely in the professional/public arena: Imagine Dragons’ Dan Reynolds Goes Shirtless, Shows Off Hot Body on Tour! I am so glad this is happening prior to the premiere of his documentary on HBO. It helps clarify where he is coming from. Through behavior like this and the fact that he relies on John Dehlin in the documentary as the professional expert on the Mormon LGBT experience, Reynolds cleaely establishes his position. He is not a concerned member working to bring about meaningful change. He's coming at this like an outsider determined to damage the Church and draw away as many as he can. I seriously can't believe he would he so stupid as to think that this approach would have a positive impact on the Church leadership and the general membership. Unless, of course, alienating these potential allies was his goal, in which case he succeeded brilliantly.
  5. Do you believe that people on this board are rejecting or denying your experiences? I haven't seen that. It seems that you want to claim that your experiences with suicide outweigh the scientific consensus that suicide does not have a single cause.
  6. I completely agree that members should not demonize your choice. I hope nothing I've said has been seen as demonizing you or your choice. And I deeply appreciate your recognition that both sides need to do better at acknowledging the possibility of a better future. That is why I was so frustrated when Reynolds completely discounts those who are happy in the Church. He even goes so far as to twist their own words against them. That's not only poor behavior against these individuals, it undermines the very hope you described above.
  7. Right. You didn't do anything wrong. I'm sorry I'm on mobile and didn't format well. I'll fix that later this afternoon. I was just giving quotes of what Dan Reynolds is doing that experts say increases risk of suicide.
  8. I'm sorry for the confusion. That also is the title of the article linked immediately below. You have said that religion is a factor. I am not criticizing you at all. I am talking about Dan Reynolds. The narrative of Dan Reynolds documentary is as the LA Times described it: "a tender tribute to those teens who lost their lives in a tragic struggle between sexuality and faith."
  9. Sorry. That is a quote from the source posted below it.
  10. DON’T talk about suicide “epidemics” or suicide rates for LGBT people. Remember that sexual orientation and gender identity are not recorded at the time of death, so we do not have data on suicide rates or deaths among LGBT people. In addition, presenting suicide as a trend or a widespread occurrence (for example, tallying suicide deaths that occur in proximity to an external event) can encourage vulnerable individuals to see themselves as part of a larger story, which may elevate their suicide risk. DON’T attribute a suicide death to a single factor (such as bullying or discrimination) or say that a specific anti-LGBT law or policy will “cause” suicide. Suicide deaths are almost always the result of multiple overlapping causes, including mental health issues that might not have been recognized or treated. Linking suicide directly to external factors like bullying, discrimination or anti-LGBT laws can normalize suicide by suggesting that it is a natural reaction to such experiences or laws. It can also increase suicide risk by leading at-risk individuals to identify with the experiences of those who have died by suicide. https://www.lgbtmap.org/talking-about-suicide-and-lgbt-populations Yes, let’s please have a serious conversation about suicide! Questions for the public conversation http://www.flirtingwithcuriosity.org/?p=593 Can we stop pretending there is only ONE reasonable explanation for the tragic suicides of LGBT-identifying religious youth? http://www.flirtingwithcuriosity.org/?p=897
  11. "Imagine efforts to reduce suicide that looked at the full complexity of the picture, while avoiding overly simplistic statements that (people on all sides of this warn) can cause additional harm." The footnote states: One mother rightly calls the reality of suicide a deeply painful and personal reality for many families a “tragedy” and something that should “move us to action.” Out of a justified urgency to reduce suicide, it’s been common to hear things from your group such as: “Mama Dragons doesn’t want to destroy the church, we want the church to stop destroying our kids.” Or accusations that the Church “has created an environment where individuals seek the comfort of death over the sting of life needs to change” – often involving dramatic statements such as: “The history of Utah and the legacy of the LDS Church is splattered with the blood of dead queer youth and adult members.” On two previous occasions, when Wendy Montgomery & Tyler Glenn made similar claims, I have joined people like Kendall Wilcox in making public requests for greater care to how we frame the conversation [Yes, let’s please have a serious conversation about suicide! Questions for the public conversation; Can we stop pretending there is only ONE reasonable explanation for the tragic suicides of LGBT-identifying religious youth?]. In one of those essays, I argued that your own rhetoric that pushes people away from the Church may be directly influencing suicidal thoughts and behavior. My openly gay classmate read it and was initially furious. But then he wrote me, and reversed course, saying the following: After thinking about this some more and reading the article again, I do now feel that Tyler’s message could be harmful to our young Mormon LGBT kids, who we are all worried for…I come to this conclusion now reluctantly as a gay man who was raised in the 80s and 90s in a very Mormon community and still feel some lingering resentment about the church. As a teen, I didn’t have social media messages making me question my faith and embrace my sexuality. I felt depression about my situation and how I didn’t know what my place in the church was, but I didn’t have the outside pressure to leave the church at the time. I wonder if suicide for me would have been more probable if I agreed to listen to these outside messages of the villainy of church leaders…Coming out too early and rejecting your foundation can be very harmful. http://unthinkable.cc/larger-reflections/#_ftnref18
  12. Even if it isn't true. I don't think it helps anyone to misrepresent the actual causes of the suicides. That is why I think Reynolds work is reckless at best and possibly even malicious. He is engaging in behavior that experts agree makes the suicide epidemic worse.
  13. I'm not one to question another person's beliefs, and you're right that it probably is a factor. Another factor is people like Reynolds and Mamma Dragons telling teens that living according to the Gospel will make them miserable. Why I Believe the Mama Dragon Approach Is Ultimately Hurting Teens & Families (Despite Earnest Intentions Otherwise) This is written by a PhD who has specialized in factors contributing to suicide and mental illness.
  14. I have to agree. In regards to his decisions to further exacerbate the distress and turmoil of LGBT youth and adults in Utah and throughout the Church, I am about as critical of Dan Reynolds as possible. I have a very low opinion of his moral character and seriously question his sincerity in this advocacy. Based on the way he has gone about it, I find it much more likely that he is in fact trying to use the LGBT issue to boost his personal reputation and popularity, rather than using his position to actually help the LGBT community. His words and actions have loudly and clearly signaled to me that he is not an ally and that he views me as an enemy. And yet, I can't see any need to attack his personal life. I think there is more than enough to criticize in his work and public statements. Attacking the irrelevant personal details distracts attention away from the real damage he is doing.
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