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About kllindley

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  1. Were you in attendance? Or are you relying on a news article that omitted all context?
  2. Are you telling me that they actually used the word "straight?" And I stand as a counter witness. My life has forever been blessed by following much the same counsel. What do we do about that?
  3. I once had a couple who came in with the wife ready for divorce. She had discovered after 20 years of marriage that her husband found other women attractive. She felt that if he truly loved her he wouldn't be attracted to anyone else. She felt even more betrayed because this had apparently been going years and she never knew. She acknowledged that he hadn't cheated or even flirted with any of these women; she even admitted that he was kind and loving. But still she demanded that unless he fixed his problem, the marriage was over. I thought she was being unreasonable at the time. Though in fairness, I absolutely did not think she "had to stay in her marriage." I do, however, think it was extremely selfish of her to harm her children by seeking a divorce.
  4. Who said anything about discussing the practices of pre-Christian Melanesian societies? I saw it as an example of cultural diversity in sexuality that serves as evidence against believing that the modern Western creation of "gay" is somehow true, regardless of how adamantly current advocates demand it is.
  5. I love learning more about the historical complexity of sexuality and sexual identity. It dovetails nicely with what we know about sexuality and sexual identity from a psychological perspective as well. Although it is politically incorrect to challenge the ascendant narrative, the actual research confirms what you are saying about the role of social constructions in shaping an individual's experience of sexuality.
  6. "O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ. Ye look forward and say that ye see a remission of your sins. But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so." Why stop with insisting we can't know about the afterlife? Can any of us know there even is an afterlife? Or that God even exists? No knowledge. No prophecy. Just opinions and speculation.
  7. I actually disagree that the two statements are similar in weight. Elder Hafen's statement was made in 2008. A year earlier the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve had published the booklet "God Loveth His Children." This booklet contained the extended quote I shared earlier about the doctrine of eternal marriage between man and woman, the incompatibility of same-sex relationships with God's plan, and the promise that all feelings and desires would be refined in the resurrection so that those who desire will fend a fullness of joy in a heterosexual relationship. His statement was reaffirming their unified teaching. Was there any comparable published statement about space travel that had the endorsement of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve at the time Joseph Fielding Smith spoke on Hawaii?
  8. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I do think it is important to provide the context of that statement. I'll let other people decide for themselves whether your interpretation is consistent with the actual teachings. "God has provided the plan of salvation, or plan of happiness, to help you receive the blessings of eternal life. This plan is set forth in the scriptures; men and women cannot rewrite it to accommodate their desires. God alone gives the reward of eternal life. Some of the greatest blessings promised by the plan, including eternal life, are not intended for immediate enjoyment. Eternity is long, and mortality is short. As you base your decisions on eternal principles rather than on earthly challenges or desires, you can have “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come” (D&C 59:23). These blessings are based on obedience to eternal principles. The importance of families is one of these principles. Heaven is organized by families, which require a man and a woman who together exercise their creative powers within the bounds the Lord has set. Same-gender relationships are inconsistent with this plan. Without both a husband and a wife there would be no eternal family and no opportunity to become like Heavenly Father. In some circumstances a person defers marriage because he or she is not presently attracted to a member of the opposite gender. While many Latter-day Saints, through individual effort, the exercise of faith, and reliance upon the enabling power of the Atonement, overcome same-gender attraction in mortality, others may not be free of this challenge in this life. However, the perfect plan of our Father in Heaven makes provision for individuals who seek to keep His commandments but who, through no fault of their own, do not have an eternal marriage in mortal life. As we follow Heavenly Father’s plan, our bodies, feelings, and desires will be perfected in the next life so that every one of God’s children may find joy in a family consisting of a husband, a wife, and children." I also like this statement from the new mormonandgay website: "Marriage is an important part of God’s plan for our happiness. Eternal marriage between a man and a woman is essential at some point in our progression to reach exaltation, a state defined as living the kind of life our Heavenly Parents currently enjoy."
  9. Was this statement different than that? "As we follow Heavenly Father’s plan, our bodies, feelings, and desires will be perfected in the next life so that every one of God’s children may find joy in a family consisting of a husband, a wife, and children."
  10. So, when the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve wrote and published "God Loveth his Children," they were just expressing their opinions? That despite their expressed witness, they really didn't know the truth?
  11. Not about sex. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/god-loveth-his-children/god-loveth-his-children?lang=eng "As we follow Heavenly Father’s plan, our bodies, feelings, and desires will be perfected in the next life so that every one of God’s children may find joy in a family consisting of a husband, a wife, and children." https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/beliefs
  12. Most of that, I get. My problem is when he suggests that those of us who believe Leaders are speaking from revelation are deluded because he knows it really isn't revelation. Elder Hafen didn't say "This is just my opinion that. . . " President Oaks, Elder Holland, Elder Christofferson, Elder Cook, Elder Anderson and the combined First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve didn't say, "We really don't have any guidance from God, but we're convinced our personal opinions must be correct." It's true that they did not say "The voice of the Lord came to me saying: . . . ". But they have made clear declarations of Gospel truth.
  13. I was specifically asking about ANY revelation. He said he believes in personal revelation not revelation through prophets or apostles. Like I said, I can respect that. I absolutely believe there has been revelation on the issue, including actual doctrine. And many people believe that Church Leaders just got it completely wrong, don't know what revelation is, or are otherwise untrustworthy. That's fine. I don't understand how someone with that belief would maintain any belief in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If Church Leaders are so inept at figuring out something like this, why would you trust them about anything. Why believe in God as our Father? Why believe in Jesus Christ's divinity? Why believe in Temple ordinances? Why be a member at all?
  14. In other words, no. You don't believe in revelation to prophets. I respect that. What I don't understand is why you make such a big deal about the lack of revelation regarding LGBT issues. You wouldn't give such a revelation any more credibility than the current authoritative statements. That makes the repeated statements about a lack of revelation seem like a disingenuous ploy.
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