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Mike Reed

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About Mike Reed

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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    Northern California

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  1. You are probably right on the limited avenues that internet Missionaries are called to today. There will still be trolls, and even if the selected forums for them to participate in are heavily moderated, to delete them out of existence with a mere click... i fear that this won't be enough. I am not suggesting advanced seminary training. That would be great, but it's not an option. Neither do I see the church moving in this direction.... or even in the direction of extending training to 3-6 months. What I am suggesting is not a prediction of what they will do. It is a suggestion that could help to counter the predicted decline that i said years ago would happen. The Church hasn't done much at all that i suggested long ago (not that they are listening, neither am I a person for them to listen to). I am afraid that Missionary numbers will continue in it's decline, even though i think a few of my several suggestions were worth hearing. Anyhow... we will hear the new numbers very soon, and i am quite confident that the decline will continue, as I predicted.
  2. The Church could also announce that women can enter the mission at age 18 too... which I would applaud. But this would still not stop the steady decline that I predicted to Lloyd years ago. As I said, missionary enrollment will continue to decline. Lloyd asked, how far? I said, "I don't know". I don't know. I don't know what the Church might do to help to fix this fallout. if they do nothing, well... Elder Holland's prediction will fail miserably... and some might think I was even prophetic :-P (especially since Lloyd has protested so much).
  3. But whether I am right or wrong about the importance of further training internet missionaries.... my point is that expanding enrollment of internet missionaries would help to remedy the continued fall in numbers. So would expanding non-proselytizing/service oriented missions. So also would a greater emphasis on retired couples serving (which has been slightly emphasized lately, but not nearly enough). So also would statements from the brethren for a greater level of divine appointment upon the shoulders of women. None of this has happen to a sufficient enough level to remedy the steady decline that I predicted years ago.
  4. I wouldn't say that my 3 month suggested minimum meets the level of training for typically called evangelizing protestant or catholic missionaries. not even for my 6 month suggested maximum. i am not suggesting that this level of training should be given to all who enter the missionary field. just internet missionaries, who will have to deal with trolls (if their conversations are public in social media)... moreover, there will be no geographical assignment, which would also demand a more rigorous training. Besides... being like the Catholics and Protestants, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Or is it?
  5. I predicted that missionary numbers would continue to fall. Lloyd asked me how far they would fall, and I said "I don't know". Needless to say, I have been right. They have continued to fall since then... and are in the opposite direction of the trajectory that Elder Holland predicted for the coming years. This may still be achieved, but i doubt it will ever be achieved unless alternatives to the missionary program as I have suggested are put into place (or put into place other alternatively great ideas). The only relatively significant push to expanding the missionary program as i have suggested, is in regards to encouraging retired members to serving missions. But even that has been rather minimal. I think there could be a stronger push in this area, as well as a stronger emphasis on internet missionaries working from home, and also (which id didn't mention here, but i mentioned in Lloyd's thread) Church leadership suggesting that women are expected/ordained to serve missions too. I also suggested that offering more service orientated/less proselytizing missionary work could also expand the missionary numbers. Lloyd claimed that I was saying that Missionary Work needed to be redefined. I have never considered my suggestions to expand missionary work to be outside the bounds already defined by the church. About the need to train missionaries. You may be right. I guess I just assumed that basic apologetic arguments would extend the otherwise traditional period of 6 weeks. I assumed that a traditional month and a half needed for preparation of the basics of missionary work... that more would be needed... not only to be more informed, but to also train them how to best deal with trolls. How much more/less would you expect for them on the internet? I thought the 3 of my 3-6 month range offered a conservative option.
  6. Oh shoot. i forgot that rule. I guess i was just saying why i was re-alerted to this forum again. Weren't Loyd's posts about me personal? Never mind. I am glad to be here. And i like most of the moderation offered here. Especially that offered by you.
  7. I posted in response to scott lloyd, since he was the one who appeared in my google search to remind me of this forum. Thankfully, many people challenged his claims in my absence, and many of whom I doubt I have ever conversed with. Is Scott Lloyd someone that I should worry about, with regard to my activity here? There were more than a few formal CFR's that moderation never honored. I suspect perhaps yes. I suspect i was previously banned because of my previous exchanges with him. But if that be true, and if you are looking for a replacement for his moderation, i think I will do a far better job.
  8. Among my more recently offered studies is on the topic of "Treasure Seeking and Vicarious Work for the Dead." We have all heard the story about JS and his treasure seeking, which is perceived as an activity (however perceived as superstitious) overwhelmingly perceived as being focused on monetary gain. It wasn't solely focused on that. It was overwhelmingly perceived as a vicarious act... just as it was with regard to freeing the gini otherwise trapped in the bottle... otherwise trapped until he granted three wishes... the conception among treasure seekers was very similar: that many of the spirit guardians were trapped in a quasi-limbo state, until the treasure was retrieved. masses for the dead, prayers for the dead, and even a proxy baptism/sacrifice was performed on a rooster (to trick the devilish guardian who demanded a christian be sacrificed), in their behalf. There are also old traditions held among these "necromantic" (i put it in quotes, because these were pious efforts held by those who believed in pious traditions) treasure seekers... which speak, especially in Irish/Scottish lore of raising the dead in order to baptize them.
  9. To folks who may not have been around on this forum a couple years ago (i have been around since ZLMB), to remember me. Some have called me anti (although far fewer seem to think so now). I reject that label. I am more of a critic focused on dated apologetic than I am focused on debunking the actual LDS Church. I am bored now of debunking dated apologetic, though. I am also less of an atheist now. I think my published book (linked to below) has offered a good illustration for the sort of balance scholarship that I seek to promote.
  10. I saw that Scott Lloyd from the Des News is still so dang obsessed about me. As he admitted, he has his clock set from years ago, still counting down from my passing prediction. He is prepared to call me a false prophet, which is strange to me (and perhaps to most of you) since I never claimed prophetic utterance. I DID, however, ask him if he would accept me as a prophet, if my claim turned out to be more true than Elder Holland's 100,000 prediction (prophesy) in future years. I offered ways that missionary work could increase in numbers, if they were extended with regard to the internet, for those serving at home (this expansion hasn't occurred to the level that would remedy my previous passing prediction, although i remain convinced that this field should be expanded for the Church's own good.... although for these missionaries, a 6 week mtc program will never be enough--I would suggest a 3-6 month training period for these folks, so they can be ready for the onslaught that they will face). I also said that missionary statistics could increase if the Church began implying that women were called to the work too (which hasn't happened yet), but that missionary statistics could still also increase if there was focus on the elderly/retired serving missions (which has happened a little). Yet... The continued decline of missionaries has nevertheless confirmed what I said. Never mind what Lloyd said of my prediction. He is obsessed to the point of counting down to the second so he can debunk a claim that i never made. He's... well um... I can't call him names here, so you can fill in the blank.