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About boo

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  1. We call that hearsay. Let special witnesses speak publically about there own experience.What good are witnesses that refuse to testify? Joseph didn’t hesitate . Peter didn’t hesitate . Paul didn’t hesitate. Why do our 15 .
  2. Ok 3 comments. Finally what difference doe it make how big any movement is? Does the fact that Noah only had 8 people who were converted by his preaching mean he was a failure or what he taught wasn't important ?. Or was the significance of the house of Israel entering into Egypt diminished by the fact there were only 70 of them ? How many were in Lehis household when they left Jerusalem ? We use the wrong metric. We confuse numbers with importance and miss out on understanding what God is doing
  3. I have 2 brief comments. He was not excommunicated for teaching false doctrine or "leading people astray". He was never accused of this until after he was excommunicated . Deseret Books use to carry his books .He was excommunicated because his SP through Elder Nelson demanded that he withdraw the book that he had under a publishing contract ( ie breach his contract with his publisher ) and cancel hid proposed series of talks ( which hadn't happened ). He told them he couldn't breach his book publishing deal and he refuse to recognize their right to control what he said and when. In particular since he says Christ had directed him to offer the 10 talks series which he characterized as a celebration of his 40 years in Mormonism. This wasn't about doctrine it was about control and the risk of exercising unrighteous dominion. May be you are ok with your ecclesiastical authority telling you when you can talk ( even before he knows what you are going to say ) and commanding you to breach your legal contracts upon pain of excommunication but i am deeply troubled by the very idea of someone using his priesthood authority to control my thoughts and actions. So was Joseph . See D and C 122,122 0
  4. Sorry to disappoint but the press of substantial things has delayed my response. I doubt that my response will prove satisfactory to many of you. The problem is we all have our carefully constructed paradigms and asKuhn pointed out in Structure of Scientific Revolutions shifting a carefully and painfully constructed paradigm is very difficult. See 2 Nephi 28. You assume Christ directs the prophet today as he clearly did at times in the past .but look at the evidence. How many times since Joseph has a president of the church publicly proclaimed that he while in the presence of the Savior he received direction from the Savior about the church should be run.The answer is NONE. Since the Savior said that the Church had lost the fullness of the Priesthood D C 124 has it been restored ? Do you believe the Savior when he said the church would be rejected Section 124 3Nephi16.Do you believe that that the church and the members were blessed or cursed after Joseph death D C 124. Were they removed out of their place or did they stay unmolesteded in Nauvoo. That is why I said your comment about Christ being the head is assuming the very issue in controversy is a logical error.. Secondly ask how many people were excommunicated for teaching false doctrine by Joseph . The answer is NONE. Teaching false doctrine is heresy leaving the church is apostasy.But knowing that Joseph taught you should not excommunicate for heresy the church has reworked the definition to suit ther own purpose ? Incidentally I am an active member.Been in multiple bishoprics been a temple worker for years and have a Stake callingtgat requirements49 hours a month. I add this because I fully expect to be attacked. It happens I have a testimony of the Savior and the Bool ofMormon and hold aTR but I love the scriptures and the truth more than the philosophies of men
  5. My father in law was a church construction supervisor and he was generally not liked by the workers on church construction jobs because he was insistent that everything be built EXACTLY according to the plans. Any one involved in construction knows that never happens so it was constantly rip it out ,tear it down.do it again. I have several Clients who are active LDS ( oh can I use that phrase) who say they would never bid on a church project because after all the repair or change work they lose money every single time.
  6. Let’s Roll. I find your response rather remarkable. First by saying the Savior is the head of the church and by implication the person who directed the ultimatum to Snuffer you are assuming the very question in controversy. Logic 101 failure. Secondly your position ,if I understand correctly, that ultimatums are not compulsion just eviscerated the whole principle of Section 121. Given that corporal punishment or financial penalties can not be imposed upon church members by the corporate church what do you think compulsion means in Section 121 ? Elder Nelson sent the message “do as I say or you will be excommunicated “. What more abusive form of compulsion could there be?
  7. That of course depends upon who he is. There were lots of Jews who were crucified before the Savior but it was his crucifixion that caused earth quakes and cities to be destroyed and the veil of the temple to be wrought asunder.
  8. Your recollection is correct . It was in the middle of the 10th talk given in Mesa. His point was that Section 121 of the D and C meant what it said.If we use the priesthood to try to compel men we might as well as say goodby to it. D and C 121 :36-37 . In his case his SP acting under the direction of Russel Nelson instructed him to not begin his previously announced 10 talks and stop publishing his book . The order came from the very top of the church. It was an order and was a blatant attempt to compel some one to do something. Clearly in violation of the express wording of the scriptures. He said no and was excommunicated on the 40th anniversary of his baptism ( I am not making this up). He appealed his excommunication but the appeal was denied. Now you tell me do the scriptures mean what they say or not? Are there really personal or institutional consequences to abusing your priesthood authority by trying to compel others to do what you say. If your answer is no not really as( I think most believe) then it is foolish to think that just because a Church leader abused his authority and all the other church leadership acquiesced in that abuse there would be any consequences. But if you believe the word of God has power and you ignore it at your peril what Snuffer said may actually make a LOT of sense. See we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling..
  9. I was a missionary in Hong Kong for 2 1/2 years beginning 1966. Yes I am that old. We were told by the MP ( i served under 3 of them and the instruction was identical in each case )that committing the investigator to baptism was an important part of the 1st discussion and we were suppose to pull out a calendar and pick a date before we left the apartment. I was always troubled by that approach but fell in line. My wife served in Spain in the 70s and these were also the instructions she received from her MP.
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