Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

4,371 Excellent


About pogi

Profile Information

  • Gender

Recent Profile Visitors

2,259 profile views
  1. pogi

    Is there room?

    In many ways I am drawn to monasticism, but in practice Mormonism (for lack of a better word) is probably more closely related to Judaism and Islam as it does not encourage the monastic ideal of celibacy and poverty. We view prosperity as both a blessing and a tool to serve God with joy. We view marriage and sex as perhaps the pinnacle of spiritual expression and experience. Islam forbids the practice but encourages simplicity and to avoid excess. Muhammad taught to some of his companions who wanted to stop sexual practice and fast continuously, “Do not do that! Fast on some days and eat on others. Sleep part of the night, and stand in prayer another part. For your body has rights upon you, your eyes have a right upon you, your wife has a right upon you, your guest has a right upon you.” On another occasion he taught, “Moderation, moderation! For only with moderation will you succeed.” Those are all teachings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ (avoided "Mormon" with that one. This is harder than I thought). We follow monastic principles, but use a different path of practice to meet the same end. Namely we believe and covenant to dedicate our lives and our everything to God. Our poverty is in spirit rather than substance, and our celibacy is to abstain from wickedness, to not have intercourse with the ways of the adversary. All things are spiritual in Mormonism. Everything we do should be for the glory of God. I am probably about as close to monastic as they come in the church. I meditate twice daily and am very much a minimalist. I find spiritual refuge in solitude in the mountains and deserts of Utah and try to take a 1 week retreat annually to pray, fast, and journal write. It is usually the highlight of my year. It is spiritually rejuvenating and sets the course for the rest of my year. But I believe in moderation and relate more with Mohammad's teachings on the matter. But the principles, more than the practice, of monasticism I completely believe in. We don't live by alms, we don't live by codified monastic rules and creeds, but we do devote ourselves fully to spiritual work and renounce worldly pursuits. In the Mormonism, what some may consider "worldly" we view as tools of spirituality, joy, and service, gifts and blessings when used for good. It is all about moderation in Mormonism, but unfortunately I find that most members are imbalanced in seeking spiritual solitude as encouraged by the prophets. Without it, I find it impossible to truly live in the world but not of the world. We become spiritually blinded and lost:
  2. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    Am I resisting? I feel like my path of honesty is the most helpful way forward in making this work. There is nothing wrong with feeling and expressing sentiment and loss while striving to navigate change. It’s pretty normal actually.
  3. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    I hope that you are not considering my comments an uproar. If we want to help President Nelson succeed, then we have to be honest about how members might emotionally react to this, and how non-members might react. This cannot work if we are not realistic about the mountainous challenges in such an endeavor. This cannot work without empathy and understanding of our “Mormon” heritage and history. This will not work if members feel shamed into submission, or at least guilty or wrong for feeling sentimental about the term “Mormon”. As I have said, I will make a diligent effort, but let’s be honest with ourselves or none of this will work.
  4. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    I am aware of the history. I am sure President Benson was aware too as he sung his overtly sentimental expression in song of his pride in being a “Mormon boy”. Perhaps I shouldn’t feel sentimental at my identity as a “Christian” for the same reasons. But alas, I do.
  5. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    “Mormonism” is deeply engrained in my heritage, my culture, my beliefs, my faith, and my identity. Naturally, I have a deep rooted emotional attachment to the the term. On top of that, I can’t think of a useful term to replace the word with. How do I express that “Mormonism” is part of my identity without using the word? My identity is more than “the church”, it is “Mormonism”, which I have already expressed means so much more. Some of you may remember Ezra Taft Benson singing “I am a Mormon boy” from the pulpit in conference in his quivering, warm, and completely out-of-tune voice in 1989. That was a brave and touching expression of his emotional ties with his identity as an “honest Mormon boy”. I feel the same. I find it hard to believe that any long-term member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (formerly known as “Mormon”) would be really genuine if they didn’t feel an emotional connection with that identity as a Mormon...and a sadness with its loss. I am not really a college football fan, but I imagine that it would be like changing the BYU mascott to something...anything other than a cougar. For an alumni super fan who always rooted for “the cougars” and identified as a “cougar” - there would be a sense of loss. I am willing to try on something new, but I would not be genuine if I said that I like it yet.
  6. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    Steve Evans at By Common Consent says this: I think you might be right about getting our own members on board. I think most will give it a diligent effort to heed the prophets counsel, but probably are not really happy with the change and probable have little hope of any real change after previous failed attempts at the same goal. I think some are discouraged after giving it a diligent effort before, only to see the church itself use the term later in promotional videos, etc.: Some might lack the will/faith to try again after previous ditched efforts. Some might question what success might entail? What good will it do if only members follow this rule, when we already know and respect the official name of the church? I don't think the change is for us as much as it is for outsiders to understand what we are all about - Christ. Without a mighty intervention of God, any real change on the outside will take decades upon decades of expensive effort, even then, I don't expect much change. I personally don't like the change, I didn't like it before, but I will give it another go if that is the direction of the prophet. If this is indeed the Lord's will, it will all work out, but we shouldn't expect the Lord's will to be easy on the palate of His people, based on history.
  7. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    That's weird. Use this google search: church leader: stop calling us mormons It will be around the third link down. It still reads and works the same that way.
  8. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    If Yahoo News feed is any indication, not so well... It doesn't look like any of the other news outlets are much better. In fact one local cbs link in a google search reads like this: Intentional? I'll let you decide. I think Exiled is right, the PR department has a lot of work to do.
  9. I think the analogy holds up quite well. You are assuming that the environmental factor that influences sexual attraction must be the "constant environmental stimuli of heterosexual parents". I just don't think you are considering that sexual attraction might not be influenced by social factors much at all. There are plenty of other possible environmental variables that may contribute to SSA. It probably has little to nothing to do with how a person is raised socially in the family environment (that seems pretty evident), but as is the case with epigenetics, other environmental factors, which are rarely consistent from one sibling to the next might be factors. For example, in identical twin studies siblings raised in the similar environment with the same social structure can manifest different tendencies and physical/social/intellectual traits like height, reading disabilities, autism, bipolar, etc. It is clear that with siblings raised in the "same" family environment can still have vastly different environmental influences on epigenetics. This can all be affected by environmental factors in the womb (mother's diet, stress level, exposure to heavy metals, vaccines, medications, etc.) and environmental exposures out of the womb, such as trauma, diet, and many other potential exposures. We don't know for sure, but any of these could potentially influence the epigenetics of sexual tendencies of siblings differently. The "environment" of 2 siblings is never identical as you make it seem. It seems reasonable that not all siblings are born into the "English" (straight) environment, but that a sibling might speak "French" (SSA) due to one single environmental difference. It seems to me that the theory about the role of epigenetics in SSA and what Robinson is saying, seem to jive quite well together. They both emphasize environmental factors and fluidity, and how it is thought to be potentially modifiable by lifestyle choices and environmental influence. It would be helpful to know exactly what environmental factors play a role, there may be several. Some may be prenatal factors, others may be postnatal.
  10. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    Interesting theory. The devil gate or devil's gate church. Ya, I could see that being a problem. That is pretty funny actually.
  11. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    I don't think they frown upon it. It just isn't very specific.
  12. pogi

    The Name of the Church

    That will be difficult because, to me, "Mormonism" encompasses so much more than "The Church of Jesus Christ". To me, The Church of Jesus Christ refers to the organization and it's official and correlated teachings, whereas "Mormonism" (in my mind) encompasses the culture, folk doctrines, and non-official personal beliefs and latitudes espoused by individual members which belong to the organization. It is not simply what is taught officially, but what is practiced individually. While not officially recognized by the church, these latitudes in belief are allowed to the members by the church and therefore fall under the umbrella and practice of "Mormonism", but do not necessarily fall under the umbrella of "The Church of Jesus Christ". So how are we to reference the much wider net of Mormonism without using the word?
  13. pogi

    The reasons for the flood

    I don't think cognitive dissonance is as common as is suggested by critics. Both Mormonism and the philosophies of science have enough wiggle room to allow for a myriad of possible explanations. I think each member reconciles things differently in their own head as they have different understandings of science and religion. But I think very few actually practice cognitive dissonance. Also, one is not required to accept everything as literal in Mormonism.
  14. Again, I think it has more to do with following principles of financial responsibility and integrity, rather than a charity. It was their business after all. Either way, to argue that they sunk 600 mil to save the life insurance policies of the GA's simply doesn't make sense.