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About pogi

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    Lost my face in the fuzz

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  1. No kidding!? Well, goodnight! I have to clean up this sticky God off of my floor and then pray to substance before bed. P.S. We don’t believe that there is only 1 “being” in the Godhead, neither did Penrose.
  2. Well, for starters, this: Penrose is not teaching a oneness of substance (traditional trinity), but of mind, spirit, purpose, and action. He is saying that they are one in the same way that we will be one with them - not in substance. Then this: Sorry, but you wont find THAT in the traditional trinity. And this: Traditional trinitarian belief (correct me if I am wrong) teaches that God the Father fills all space.
  3. "Freedom parade invites rejected LGBTQ entries to reapply" https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46342720&nid=148&title=freedom-parade-invites-rejected-lgbtq-entries-to-reapply
  4. For as long as Josh has been posting here, he has only quoted Penrose. He has this obsession with him. It doesn't matter what any other prophets have said, Penrose is the only official authority who can speak for the church in Josh's mind.
  5. The Book of Abraham. Like it or not, it is scripture.
  6. pogi

    Pres. Oaks talk - Be One event

    What makes you think that members who think the ban was commanded by God don't have an accurate historical narrative? Words can be interpreted in many different ways - just look at all the different interpretations of the Bible. What may appear as racist to you, may not be interpreted as such to someone else, there is no objective measure - it is all a matter of interpretation. I have never been accused of being a troll before. This just goes to show that words can be interpreted in many different ways by different people. "Trollish behavior", "racism"- if you ask different people what is, and what is not trollish or racist, you will get several different interpretations. What you call trollish behavior, I call effective communication - You make a statement, I reflect that statement back to you through paraphrasing as I perceive your statement. I then give you a chance to clarify your statement, defend your claim, or retract. I honestly see your comment as demeaning and insulting. To me, you are clearly stating that black members are not culpable for their beliefs because of the conditioning power of their leaders. What are they, children? The fact that you are not going to "dignify" me with a response is simply another layer of demeaning behavior. I should be the one reporting you. Feel free to report me, I would be very surprised if judgment was in your favor. Which would go to show that you may think that you have the only authoritative interpretation of words such as "trolling" or "racism", but in fact, you may be mistaken.
  7. pogi

    Pres. Oaks talk - Be One event

    Instigated/influenced/prompted/initiated/commanded by God's will - carried out by humans. Lets not argue over semantics, I think you know what I meant. Communication is clearly breaking down here. I stated clearly that I take no solid stance on the matter one way or the other, how could you possibly accuse me of using empirical evidence to support one side of the equation? You stated that the the "primary error of faith (not history) is faith in a racist God (not leaders)". That is your interpretation of racism, others (including black members) do not agree with you. The quoted portion is clearly my interpretation of what you said. That is how I read your words. I am offering you a chance to clarify. How else am I supposed to understand your comment? Here is the direct quote: Are you suggesting these black members are not capable of thinking for themselves and are not culpable or accountable for what they choose to believe? Are they so intellectually incompetent that it is entirely out of their control? They are simply blind puppets and lemmings? The racist white church leaders are so powerfully manipulative and skilled at brain-washing that the members have no responsibility for what they choose to believe? That is an insult on their intelligence and their ability to operate and think for themselves. It is an insult on every believing member of the church to insinuate that we are not responsible for what we believe because the "conditioning" of the leaders is so overpowering of our own intelligence and agency. Don't alter quotes by other posters. It's against the rules. ~Mods
  8. pogi

    Pres. Oaks talk - Be One event

    You are certain that the ban was instigated by humans outside of the will of God? Based on what evidence? Again, you are trying to use empirical evidence to decipher God's will, which we have agreed is impossible. I have said nothing of your faith. If your faith is that God did not instigate the ban, I respect that. In fact, I lean toward that perspective myself and don't take a solid stand one way or the other. I am not condemning, you, your faith, or your God. But you definitely are doing that to others by condemning black member's faith as being in "primary error", and condemning black member's God as being racist, even when they don't view the ban that way - as if a black person needs a white person to explain racism to them. You honestly don't view this as an attack on a person's intelligence - "I don't blame you for being a blind follower of manipulative church leaders. You obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to think for yourself and are being brain-washed through religious conditioning to accept whatever is being fed to you without thinking for yourself and without questioning anything." No, that is not belittling at all! You are diminishing the person to a brainless lemming.
  9. Utah county (probably the highest concentration of highly active conservative Mormons) has one of the lowest rates of suicide in the state. Just thought I'd point that out.
  10. pogi

    Pres. Oaks talk - Be One event

    Be careful in judging another’s faith and imputing their God recklessly. You are projecting man’s ways upon God, who’s ways you do not understand. As other’s have noted, there are many faithful blacks who do not share your view. Why do you so carelessly dismiss their faith, and belittle their intelligence? Are they not capable of deciding if their God is racist or not for themselves? No empirical evidence makes your version of God the correct version. You are not capable of making such definitive judgments of both God Himself and of man’s faith.
  11. pogi

    Pres. Oaks talk - Be One event

    So you are not trying to dismiss the idea that the ban was God's will by using empirical evidence? If all you are attempting to say is that some leaders had racist ideas, then I think we can all agree with that. What exactly are you trying to say that we don't already know? The point is empirical evidence says nothing of God's will (as you freely admit), so why use it as a tool in this discussion? This is a matter of faith. So, what can be said about it? Nothing. All you can do is try and respect the faith of others. Your empirical evidence cannot save anyone from errors of faith.
  12. pogi

    the gospel of change?

    That isn't the only point of the church. As I recall we have a four-fold mission, not a one-fold mission. We don't have a monopoly on making bad men good and good men better, but we do have a pretty good system, from personal experience. Our mission of "perfecting" the saints will not happen in this life...but we do have a monopoly on that one.
  13. I think we would make the top list for that category too.
  14. Intolerance on the part of the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, all in the name of tolerance