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MiserereNobis

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About MiserereNobis

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    Ora pro nobis, Sancta Dei Genitrix

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  1. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    Well, the more venial sins we have (sins that do not deprive us fully of God's grace), the more purgation we must undergo to be cleansed. Think of a piece of clothing. The dirtier it is, the longer it takes to clean. If we try to keep our clothes clean during the day, the less we have to clean them later. So, if we keep our lives clean and try to act in accordance with God, then we need less time in purgatory to be cleansed. Catholics do "work for the dead" because once someone is in purgatory, those who are alive can pray for them and do good deeds for them to help speed up the process. It's an interesting parallel to LDS work for the dead.
  2. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    The standard answer is that we were created to know God, to love God, to serve God, and to be happy with Him forever. The creation does not come out of a lack of anything on His part (to lack is to be imperfect). Actually, if He had not created the universe and humans, that would have shown His lack, because creation testifies of His glory and humans are the pinnacle of His creation and glory because we are made in His image and testify of His glory. I've never heard anything against it. Pope Francis said if Martians came to earth we'd preach to them and baptize them
  3. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    I can understand that point-of-view. Thanks.
  4. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    Yes, that makes sense, especially when we consider the Saints. They are in heaven, unified with God, which is why we ask their intercession -- they are right there (metaphorically speaking) with Him. So when they put it a good word for us, they are participating in His work.
  5. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    All of the above 😄 Resurrection, for most, doesn't occur until judgement day. Until then, we are disembodied spirits. We are subsumed by God, yet we retain our individual identity and awareness. Mystical experience is ineffable, so it's hard to nail down what exactly the mystics are saying about the experience of heaven. The Mystical Doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross, explained his experiences through poetry and paradox, which is normal when mystics report on their experiences. It's intriguing talking about this, because ultimately we don't know what it will be like. We have hints and intimations and the Catholic Church has spoken in broad and general terms, but it seems like until we are there we won't know much more, I think. I remember one poster years back saying that he imagined doing laundry and cleaning the kitchen in the celestial kingdom. Seemed quite odd that he'd want something like that
  6. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    For Catholics, heaven is a state of being, not doing. There will be no boredom -- that would suggest lack and in heaven there is no lack. We are in perfect union with God and are perfectly fulfilled. The end of our creation has been met; there is no more to be done, because it is not doing, it is being. It is not purposeless, it is purpose fulfilled. We're not sitting around "feeling good about ourselves", our being is fully united to God and to all others in heaven. It is the Mystical Body of Christ, fully realized. Of course this will bring perfect joy and love and peace. You seem to view heaven as a better version of life on earth, like being in heaven is like having a better job or something. I view it is a completed state of being. Maybe that's where our disagreement lies, in the starting premise.
  7. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    Yes, it's the western version of the eastern idea of theosis. I'd say the difference is that we are subsumed into God, not a separate God (but then again, I don't know too much about the specifics of LDS exaltation).
  8. I wouldn't want the priest recording my confession in the confessional. That's pretty... creepy and gross. Thankfully it's against canon law -- it would break the confessional seal and automatically excommunicate the priest. I suppose I, as the penitent, could record it (penitents are not bound by the seal), but I don't see the point of that, either. These disaffected Mormons making huge deals of their excommunications is rather foreign to me. Maybe because I'm not in the LDS culture, but still. What's the point? I guess it's to show their perceived injustice of the proceedings to others, but I don't understand why someone who is very much against the LDS church gives any credence to the proceeding to begin with. Let's say I had been raised Mormon and then converted to Catholicism. If the Mormon church held proceedings against me I wouldn't go and I wouldn't care because obviously I no longer believe. Going to the proceeding and making a big deal of it seems to show that they want to have their cake and eat it, too. But then again, I'm an outsider, so that could be part of why I don't get it.
  9. MiserereNobis

    Mary, the Mother of Christ

    See, it's things like this that should help Mormons understand why mainstream Christians are scandalized at LDS doctrines and have a hard time saying that Mormonism is able to fit within Christianity. The belief that God the Father had sex with Mary shows how far apart the LDS understanding of God and Jesus is from Christianity.
  10. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    I'm using "mystical" in the technical sense, in which case there is no separation between mystical and reality. A mystical experience gives us deeper insight into reality. The beatific vision would give us absolute reality as we are unified with God, the ground of all being. I view heaven as a state of being, not a state of doing and not a location. The blessed in heaven are perfectly united with God and thus perfectly united with each other. It's the Mystical Body of Christ. We are all part of the same body. In this current life, that union is hidden from us (through a glass darkly and all that). In heaven, in the state of perfect union, we will perfectly experience it. The mystics tell us that mystical experience is a peek at what it's like. We can slightly experience here what will be the complete experience in heaven. In mystical experience we aren't really doing anything, we are being, and we experience our being's unity with God. That's my take, anyway, backed up with Catholic theology, Catholic mystics, and my own mystical experiences.
  11. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    Heaven is called the "Beatific Vision" in that one has a perfect "vision" of God. The relationship with God is no longer mediated, no longer limited, no longer based on faith and reason, but is instead direct and perfect. It is the perfect mystical experience; we are, in a sense, one with God, and thus have perfect joy. It is the ultimate end of our creation, so when we attain there is nothing left to attain. Here's the intro from Wikipedia:
  12. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    I was about to post a response to JLHPROF that says what HJW is saying. If God is only "presiding" like a bishop it certainly diminishes His power and is quite different than what mainstream Christians believe. I imagine that this idea is speculative and not official, right? I just haven't heard it before. If it is official, it really is yet another huge difference in our views of the nature of God, going far beyond the trinity (unity in being or unity in purpose) debates. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that God was temporarily given this world/galaxy/universe to just manage, and that there is a manager above Him. That certainly doesn't seem like THE God, as HJW points out.
  13. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    Wait... that's something TheNehor would say...
  14. MiserereNobis

    President Nelson and "Getting our own planet."

    This is a terrible straw man of the Catholic/Christian view of heaven. It is pretty equivalent to someone saying that the LDS believe in "getting your own planet."
  15. MiserereNobis

    The Young Pope

    Yet this show has the ridiculous idea, being discussed in the thread in general discussions, that the church should sell its property to save the world. That is the climactic scene. It would be like watching a movie where the new president of the LDS church shows his best quality by getting rid of all of the temples. When I saw the film, I felt that it was propaganda for the “spirit of Vatican II.” Perhaps I should watch it again. But my initial feeling remains.
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