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About flameburns623

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    Former LDS considering return
  • Birthday 02/03/1960

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    Southern Illinois--near St. Louis

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  1. Somehow, this has felt appropriate twice today: by Yehuda Amichai From the place where we are right Flowers will never grow In the spring. The place where we are right Is hard and trampled Like a yard. But doubts and loves Dig up the world Like a mole, a plow. And a whisper will be heard in the place Where the ruined House once stood.
  2. by Yehuda Amichai From the place where we are right Flowers will never grow In the spring. The place where we are right Is hard and trampled Like a yard. But doubts and loves Dig up the world Like a mole, a plow. And a whisper will be heard in the place Where the ruined House once stood.
  3. And if you believe you have covenanted with nothing? Or if you feel you are entering into higher or truer covenants?
  4. See "symbolic interactionism", a sociological paradigm.
  5. Conceivably, there may have been "dozens" of Stake Presidents, actively looking the other way while known LGBT members, perhaps many or most inactive or less-active, were in varying sorts of proscribed relationships. Those Stake Presidents perhaps were being relatively outspoken (within what they hoped were discreet venues) that they intended to pursue "Don't Ask/Don't Tell" policies with respect to such members. At least so long as such members were not being called to significant ward or stake callings, were usually on the margins of ward life, etcetera. This still might have been a concern to General Authorities, as it implied a quiescent attitude toward LGBTQIA issues which would make it difficult to continue to sound forth a clear message about living the Law of Chastity. I am speculating here. But understand this: much of the corporate world now insists that managers be LGBTQIA-friendly, that they permit LGBT employees to be "out-and-open" in the workplace. Stake Presidents, it is my impression, tend to be drawn from the same demographic of people who are also going to hold responsible positions in corporate management. Whatever the private religious feelings of a Latter-Day Saint in a management position in many-perhaps most-corporate enterprises today, they must work with LGBTQIA persons, cheerfully and productively. I suspect this shapes how they would want to interact with known LGBT persons who, for whatever reasons, retain some semblance of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. So, while admitting that I am only speculating: it would not surprise me that a significant number of Stake Presidents might have felt that in the contemporary climate of 2015, ignoring the relationship status of LGBTQIA would be a good idea. While the General Authorities, who tend to be a generation or two removed from the current workforce culture, might still see it a greater priority to continue to enforce a more rigid moral code.
  6. In the RCC, any baptised person can perform baptism. Rites for the dead are reserved to the Catholic priesthood.
  7. Graeco-Roman culture, Japanese culture, Hindu and Chinese culture, various native cultures, could and did make provisions for homosexuality which were excluded as a possibility within cultures shaped by Abrahamic monotheism. Abrahamism is particularly obsessive about regulating sexuality and limiting it. Because of Abrahamism as it has normally been articulated in the United States and Europe, monogamy probably "feels instinctual" to you. Yet your forebears in the aboriginal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were engaged in an endeavor to normalize polygyny, (an experiment which continues in some fundamentalist Mormon splinters). Much of what you are deeming "instinctual" is not the universal experience of the human race vis'a'vis human sexuality. But: same-sex relationships in many places involved indignities and exploitation What has emerged largely in my lifetime, is something very unique: the idea that people same-sex attractions can live together in an extended, hopefully lifelong, committed relationship, akin to the established heterosexual relationships which you assume are "natural". Believing Abrahamists are having a tough time adapting to this. Wider secular culture is a bit more accommodating, though most secular moderns are only one or two generations removed from devout Abrahamic faiths and therefore have some biases and concomitant squeamishness. But your sense that antipathy to homosexuality is natural or that same-sex marriage violates "natural law" is a value assumption.
  8. I am increasingly of a mind that "it" doesn't. "Truths" exist. Lower-case "truths", infinitely malleable "truths". I am ever more agnostic about "Truth".
  9. Find attached Part One of the John Dehlin interview with numerous people about the reversal of the November 2015 policy. The conversation about how the Church exploits various aspects of prophetic narrative to profess "victory" no matter what happens is relatively early in the show. If you want to watch the entire podcast, better brew up a pot of Mormon coffee and settle down in a comfy place. This is a long one.
  10. I'm suggesting something very unflattering about your credulity.
  11. Dr. Bokovoy might disagree with you. David's statement this morning;
  12. A John Dehlin interview yesterday featured a guest who pointed out the win/win scenario the Church has created for itself: various early leaders have prophesied that the Gospel will spread and that the Church will "fill the Earth", and that there will be a "great apostasy", with the world turning against the few members who remain faithful. Oh, hi, Stargazer! Didn't notice you standing there!
  13. David Bokovoy's Facebook statement on the effects of the Policy:
  14. My BODY is a House of the Lord, within which I make sacred covenants.
  15. Put a two-minute hourglass on the pulpit on F/S's.
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