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janderich

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About janderich

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    Foreigner In the Land
  • Birthday 08/11/1976

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  1. Youth trek historical accuracy

    We must not continue to present false stories and rumor as fact. In the end this damages credibility of the church and causes many to question their testimony. If we strip away all the embellishments and have nothing left, then so be it. Apparently we never had it anyway. But if the entire truth was told as far as it can be found I think there would be more things of interest, not less. We would see situations that are perhaps more morally difficult to resolve but wouldn't that better represent what we all face anyway?
  2. Youth trek historical accuracy

    I helped organize a Trek in my stake about four years ago. We went to the Willie and Martin handcart sites in Wyoming. There were some good experiences and I saw some of the youth open up to the spirit. But historical accuracy (or lack thereof) was on my mind much of the time. I heard the false quote attributed to Brigham Young that the three young men who helped the saints cross the Sweetwater River had assured themselves salvation in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. I heard this quote, "We suffered beyond anything you can imagine and many died of exposure and starvation, but did you ever hear a survivor of that company utter a word of criticism? Not one of that company ever apostatized or left the Church, because everyone of us came through with the absolute knowledge that God lives for we became acquainted with him in our extremities." (Relief Society Magazine, Jan. 1948, p. 8). The words are beautiful but the idea that no one ever left the church from that company is false. I could hardly watch when they did the women's pull. One girl had problems and would pass out if she over exerted herself. She insisted on doing the women's pull. Just at the top of the hill she started passing out. She fainted multiple times. Eventually she passed out and wasn't coming back around. I had to run back to camp and get our camp medic. She survived the ordeal. I do believe there is an important lesson regarding the handcart pioneers, but it is one we will never teach. It has to do with blindly following leaders despite the knowing better. In fact, Brigham Young criticized the leaders of the handcart companies for permitting the the saints to go forward but I seriously doubt anyone will ever share that message. Why are we so hyper focused on the handcart pioneers anyway? It was a terrible experience, why do we then have to re-enact it? Does anyone re-enact the Donor Party's struggles? Since you have said that the location you are going to is close to a Mormon Battalion site, why don't you focus on them instead? You don't need to bring the handcarts into it. In fact, I wish that saints all over the world would look to their own history. Who started the church in the Congo, what challenges did they face? Who moved the work forward in the Dominican Republic? Aren't these saints just as important as those who were with the handcarts?
  3. Stoning people to death

    I agree. Take as an example what Jesus said of divorce: Note the Pharisees statement, "why did Moses then command us to give a writing of divorcement". But Jesus makes a clear separation between the law of Moses and the Lord's way. He says that from the beginning it was not so and that it was because of the hardness of the peoples hearts that divorce was written into the law. I see stoning in the same way. Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people at that time Moses added it to the law, but we would be foolish to believe the stoning for relatively minor offenses was commanded of God.
  4. Progression Between Kingdoms

    I addressed the "body" problem. Go look at my previous posts.
  5. Progression Between Kingdoms

    Sure the grain of sand will ultimately change into constituent molecules, atoms, etc. But that is not the point here. The point is about countless lives, receiving one after another. What do you take "secure to themselves a resurrection pertaining to the lives" to mean? Don't change his words to fit your specific paradigm. He says that going to sleep, and rising in the morning is "typical of the probations we take." The words are plain and do not need to be twisted. If this life was the only chance we had to change I submit that none of us would make it to where God and Jesus Christ are. Add on the spirit world and we would still not make it.
  6. Progression Between Kingdoms

    Our bodies certainly do correspond to the kingdom we inherit. But entering into a kingdom is not the end. We will be added on again and again. At the end of one eternal round we will enter into another round, and yet another. One probation after another, one resurrection after another, until we obtain our resurrected bodies free and clear. Then we will no more taste of death. Here is how Brigham Young once explained it: Brigham says there are countless lives in us and that we will secure to ourselves a resurrection and then receive more and more, one after the other until we are crowned Gods. Here is another from Heber C. Kimball: Heber here tells us that the arising in the morning is similar to the resurrection and that we will repeat that process again and again. I have now provided you the information you have requested on eternal progression and how the body we obtain corresponds to the kingdom we receive. I expect you will still not accept it. But store it away. Consider it again in time of quiet contemplation and the Lord may reveal it to you.
  7. Progression Between Kingdoms

    Absolutely. But McConkie was nothing if not audacious, he wrote an entire book by himself and named it Mormon Doctrine. President McKay had to assign an apostle to make corrections, of which over 1,000 were found. So I take this statement about progression as par for the course.
  8. Progression Between Kingdoms

    Too elementary and ultimately wrong. I wish we could do away with that false diagram. President Benson once told us, "The Book of Mormon Saints knew that the plan of redemption must start with the account of the fall of Adam. In the words of Moroni, "By Adam came the fall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ . . . and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man." (Mormon 9:12). Here is the basic plan of salvation as taught by Moroni in Mormon 9:11-14: Creation -> Fall -> Coming of Christ -> Redemption/Resurrection -> Return to God -> Judgement -> Restoration to wickedness or happiness. That is the plan of salvation in the book of Mormon and in the Temple. It includes Christ, it includes returning to God, it includes restoration to wickedness or happiness. Sure we are resurrected with the type of body which matches our kingdom of glory but that body is not perfect. We will be resurrected with flaws still in our character. As Moroni teaches, "And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them: and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still..." (Moroni 9:14). We came into this life with certain tendencies and flaws, we will be resurrected with some. Here are some important questions: If resurrection is the end of our progression how then will we ever become like God? Does separation from God and this earth life provide opportunities for growth and progression we can obtain in no other way? Have we learned all we can from our experience here at the end of our life? If not, how will we progress further in these important areas?
  9. Jesus's statements on marriage

    This statement from Jesus about Moses allowing people to write a bill of divorcement is where I get this lesser law from. Sure, we don't have to term it "lesser law", but in my mind that is exactly what it is.
  10. Jesus's statements on marriage

    Divorce within a marriage blessed by God is a lesser law. A husband without a wife will not, and cannot, enter into the highest order of the priesthood.
  11. Jesus's statements on marriage

    Please note that I said "they" despise one another, and that "they" need to love one another. Is there really a case where a woman wants a divorce, the man is completely faithful to her and the priesthood he holds, and he will not give her the freedom to leave? What of this eternal principle, "[The rights of the priesthood] may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man. (D&C 121:37). Maybe Brigham would argue that it is still righteous for a man not to allow a woman to divorce him, but if it were me I would give her wings. No, my point was that some individuals within the church cannot live the law of celestial marriage. Those individuals may ultimately end up adhering to a lesser law. I am not saying that the church accepts divorce and remarriage as a viable alternative to fidelity within an eternal marriage. However, I do believe that some who have been divorced and remarried will yet find a level of happiness in this life and the next.
  12. Jesus's statements on marriage

    So are you saying that God will force two people so are sealed together to stay with each other in eternity even though they may despise one another? I believe a sealing requires at least two parts, one is the priesthood, but the other is love one for another. Without both a sealing will never last. I'm not clear on you point about there not being a lesser law of marriage. Do you believe it is better to have marriage with the possibility of divorce? Or should all people be forced to live the strict law Jesus put forward? Brigham Young divorced a number of wives so I guess he didn't live the law.
  13. Jesus's statements on marriage

    I also agree that Jesus taught a much stricter law of marriage. But I believe Mathew provides a more complete picture. Here is Jesus' teaching: We as a society, and to some extent a church, are living the lesser law in this matter. And the truth is that's the best we can do. Many cannot live this higher law and the Lord in his mercy has not required it of them. But there are some who can receive the law and do live it. As Jesus says, "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
  14. receive the oath

    Some have thought that the renewal of our bodies did not just apply to the resurrection. Orson Pratt said:
  15. King Follett Sermon Take 2!

    There are other interesting areas to consider. What of the sealing ceremony and mirrors that reflect husband and wife both forward and back from a given moment in time. Could it be that that moment is a focal point of eternity for all that has gone on before and all that will go on in the future? Consider baptism and the re-birth, "Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God". Perhaps the need to be re-born was what Nicodemus was questioning, not that he was completely ignorant of the need for baptism. What of the second death, wherein we are cut off as to things pertaining unto righteousness? Could it be that the first death is those who are willing to repent and be resurrected to try again, and the second death are those who cut themselves off from regeneration, never to be born again (see Helaman 14:15-18)? What if the real vital progression we all need can only be found when we are separated from God? How then can we really progress in the Celestial realm? "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God". On and on the symbols and hints continue.
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