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About SeekingUnderstanding

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    And with all thy getting get understanding

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    Kaysville, UT

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  1. Nice try. Here’s the difference: I’d be forever haunted by the decision. In theory, there might be a scenario where enough lives were on the line that I would choose the many over my own son. It would be a difficult choice. Because they are both people. How about the fridge? Can you honestly say your choice to save the newborn keep you up at night? If the answer is no, and if the answer is that no number of embryos in the fridge is worth saving over the life a living breathing infant, then that tells you that the scenarios are different in a way that matters. What’s the difference? Embryos are not people. Not even close. Despite your professed belief to the contrary your proposed actions demonstrate otherwise.
  2. Why the distinction for people in the womb? If I hire someone to murder for me, shouldn’t I be prosecuted? How do you justify the difference if both are the same (people)?
  3. I’d save my own kid because I value his life more. It’s not analogous because I never proclaimed otherwise. You on the one hand state that embryos should be treated by the law the same as a newborn, but on the other hand choose the one over the thousands. You say you believe they should be treated equally, but in action for you they aren’t even close. Your action doesn’t match your belief. Let’s look at it from another angle, would you divert money from combating childhood leukemia in order to buy fridges to preserve embryos that would have been destroyed? Should women who perform a so called “compassionate transfer” be charged with murder?http://www.voicesinbioethics.net/newswire/2017/2/17/sw388nseb7x0o0e0odngdp5q3m0yg1 Should we start figuring out how to do better gamete testing so that we can cut down on the number of spontaneous abortions? Should we investigate spontaneous abortions to make sure the mother was being responsible in her care for the fetus?
  4. Okay got it. You are open to other people’s opinions but are willing to put them in jail if they act on them. If that’s your definition of “open” more power to you!
  5. Except you want to legislate your opinion. So not really that open are you.
  6. So you’d leave 1,000s of persons with their whole life in front of them to their death to save the life of just one? How can you justify such a position? On what basis did you decide? Is it possible that it’s because the two are in no way comparable?
  7. Since you again completely dodged the question (newborn vs fridge full of X blastocysts), I have a hard time taking you seriously. It’s not a tough question. I’ve yet to see someone who professes the idea that personhood begins with conception answer it, so you are just the latest. Just hard to really believe that you actually believe it when a simple question gives you so much trouble.
  8. By your logic, the church endorses murder, as long as it’s prayerfully considered, in certain situations.
  9. I agree completely that a 40 week fetus is indistinguishable from a newborn baby. That said an embryo is nothing like a baby. An embryo has no thoughts, feelings, or consciousness. If you start with a grain of sand and add one at a time when does it become a heap? As of yet, there are no clear boundaries. It’s hard to define, like many things in life. First what a complete and utter dodge of the question (as well as a misread). I wonder why you didn’t answer. I have no problem answering yours: That’s tragic. I would likely choose one at random and leave. I would cry afterwords. It would be a hard choice. As mentioned above, you completely misread the question. To be analogous, with my one good arm, I could activate a sprinkler system and save a roomful of X kids, or save the one kid I see engulfed in flames. It’s a tragic choice for me, but I would choose the many over the one. Remember the fridge has 100’s or perhaps even 1000’s of embryos. So you’d choose the fridge right? How many embryos is worth the life of one new born? It’s not a hard question! For me there is no number. I’d always choose the baby and wouldn’t lose any sleep over the choice. Would you? This is sad, but not a hard choice. I’d choose the baby who has their whole life in front of him/her. There might be certain cases where I’d choose differently: if the child was terminally ill or the elderly woman was vitally important. Again as above, I would be sad, I’d likely develop some form of PTSD. It would be hard, completely unlike leaving a fridge full of blastocysts. I answered your scenarios, I wonder if you can answer mine.
  10. I have yet to meet a person who actually believes that a newborn is in anyway comparable to a blastocyst. If you think you do, please participate in the following thought experiment. You are a janitor in a fertility clinic that is on fire. You are by a small freezer with X fertilized embryos. By the freezer is a new born. You can save the new born or the freezer with the embryos. There are no other options. You can’t save both. Any delay and everyone dies. How large does X need to be before you take the freezer instead of the newborn?
  11. Dude, the text implies, you inferred. So you could say, from these verses in Acts, I inferred... or these verses in Acts imply ...
  12. Then why did your only examples consist of an individual wrong doer making amends for his/her transgression?
  13. Your post is case in point why the church’s method is unreasonable . To you leaving the church is equal to doing something wrong (like theft or fighting with my wife) and I “owe” them a good showing. Wow! I do agree with your assessment. Meeting with the bishop on his terms does seem like an admission of doing something wrong. Hence the desire to resign on my own terms!
  14. Nice to see Fairmormon has a good side hustle going on!
  15. For the record, @Scott Lloyd‘s words are his own and represent a very uncharitable (but characteristic for him) reading of what I said.
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