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JLHPROF last won the day on February 24

JLHPROF had the most liked content!

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    Gazing into the eternities

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    Happy Valley (by way of the UK and Canada).

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  1. The Fall. The same condition that created all our incorrect feelings.
  2. I don't agree. Effects of the Fall, and he didn't create those feelings.
  3. I fail to understand why making people feel better about something wrong is seen as a good thing.
  4. Interesting idea. Joseph Smith would have disagreed - he said ALL ordinances were instituted before the foundation of the world and were not to be altered or changed.
  5. I bolded the part not in any scripture I can find. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&query=second+death&x=0&y=0 Can you provide any evidence that the second death suffered by perdition requires a resurrection? Because here is what I read: D&C 76:37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; 38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. 39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made. Seems to me that perdition are those who are denied resurrection for their refusal to accept Christ and their rebellion against him. There are 100 men, one will be forced to eat broccoli. All the rest shall be given steak to eat. Is that ANY indication that the one eating broccoli will get a steak as well?
  6. 3 Nephi 1:2 And Nephi, the son of Helaman, had departed out of the land of Zarahemla, giving charge unto his son Nephi, who was his eldest son, concerning the plates of brass, and allthe records which had been kept, and all those things which had been kept sacred from the departure of Lehi out of Jerusalem. 3 Then he departed out of the land, and whither he went, no man knoweth; and his son Nephi did keep the records in his stead, yea, the record of this people. One year before Christ's birth...hmmm.
  7. I have struggled to find references over the years, but my understanding is that in the early days this dedication of a home was performed by a priesthood holder and done by priesthood authority. In the Church today it is a prayer that can be offered by any family member. Much like healing blessings, is one more authoritative than the other, or more effective in achieving the results asked for? We have moved so far away from the idea that following prescribed ordinance and method is God's will, and have moved much closer to the idea that sincere intent and faith is all that is required to produce a result. I still wonder if this is so.
  8. No, I disagree. I believe they are being saved from death. That is the whole point of the atonement and resurrection. Scripture tells us that the wages of sin are death. Any sin, in any degree, is enough to prevent resurrection and leave us in the grave. Through the atonement of Christ we are all to be resurrected (saved) from that fate. That is why every one except perdition will eventually accept Christ as Lord. I have yet to see any evidence in scripture or prophetic teaching that Sons of Perdition will receive a resurrected body.
  9. True enough. But does that make the object unnecessary? Could Lehi have led his family through the wilderness on faith alone? Would God have led them just the same? Could Wilford Woodruff have healed those twin girls with a standard priesthood blessing instead of Joseph's handkerchief? Would God have honored that correctly performed administration? Can we keep our temple covenants without wearing our garments? Would God grant the blessings attached to the covenants just the same? Joseph once said speaking of exploratory expeditions west "I want every man that goes to be a king and a priest. When he gets on the mountains he may want to talk with his God;". Could not anyone have prayed to God and received an answer? Either there is real power and knowledge found in utilizing the forms and items God has revealed, or there would be no point in God revealing them. God can answer any prayer he wants, give any blessing if we are worthy, forgive our sins if we repent. Yet still he requires us to learn a higher order of prayer, live specific laws to get blessings, and be immersed in water to complete our repentance. I don't consider those forms to be mere instructional tools.
  10. The Liahona and the Seerstone addresses that concern. Inconsistency in function is a work of inconsistency in faith and focus. I Nephi 16:28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to thefaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them. 29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give usunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by small means the Lord can bring about great things. "At times when Brother Joseph would attempt to translate he would look into the hat in which the stone was placed, he found he was spiritually blind and could not translate. He told us that his mind dwelt too much on earthly things, and various causes would make him incapable of proceeding with the translation. When in this condition he would go out and pray, and when he became sufficiently humble before God, he could then proceed with the translation. Now we see how very strict the Lord is, and how he requires the heart of man to be just right in his sight before he can receive revelation from him." - David Whitmer I do believe objects can be imbued with power. From Aaron's staff to the tablets and Ark of the Covenant to the Liahona to Joseph Smith's handkerchief. But only when God directs, and only according to our faith.
  11. But once the oil has been consecrated, does it have any healing property itself? The early saints thought it did. The modern Church does not warning that it should not be applied externally as a remedy. Brigham Young used to use it on his catheter. Clearly he considered it to have healing properties. I can find all kinds of stories of consecrated oil being used to heal outside of an administration. One missionary fed consecrated oil to an infant that wasn't able to keep food down. Some used it on their toothaches. But we no longer believe that works, correct? We no longer believe the garment will offer physical protection. We no longer view temple prayer as a more authoritative way to get an answer for the Lord than regular prayer. We no longer believe it is preferable to take the sacrament with the right hand. We no longer believe revelations can come through a rock. We no longer believe in any power being contained in the forms, only in the intent.
  12. Because in many ways they are the same. Salvation is to be saved. Saved from what? From the grave where we would all remain if our sins remained upon us. Salvation is not limited to those who receive entrance to the Celestial Kingdom. Even those who receive a Telestial or Terrestrial glory are said to be saved. D&C 76:43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. D&C 76:88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation. All except perdition are considered saved (ie receive immorality in a Kingdom). Telestial Kingdom is considered salvation. The real confusion is that many confuse Salvation (general) with Salvation in the Celestial Kingdom and use the term interchangeably. As you did in your post.
  13. I think we need to read the verse in context. He is clearly speaking of false gods/idols etc. Much as the 10 commandments do. I don't see that this has anything to do with the idea of man becoming as God.
  14. I think "grievances" is a bit of a strong word. I prefer doctrinal disagreements. And I am not debating the question of miracles in the Church etc. I am asking about the elements of Mormonism, especially among early members, of special knowledge, and sacred items. Another item would be the seer stone. To early members this was a sacred object. To many modern members it makes them question. Is there no room for God to use a stone or a burning bush anymore? Is there no need to label a location as sacred ground? Is there no talisman or object that has power bestowed upon it by God?
  15. I think you are taking the allegorical elements too literally (I can't believe I just said that). The first commandment God gave Adam and Eve was to multiply. Then he commanded them not to "eat of the tree of knowledge". After eating and gaining knowledge Eve stated that they were then able to have children but not before. Let's just say there is a metaphorical reason for the aprons of fig leaves and their placement. "You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not to my understanding. You can write that information to the States, if you please – that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child." - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 6 What knowledge/wisdom do you think she was seeking?