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    Gazing into the eternities

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    Happy Valley (by way of the UK and Canada).

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  1. So much for sticking to the manual. 😁 That's some serious extracurricular materials. Good for them.
  2. jospeh the con man?

    Anyone who claims Joseph was a con man is ignorant. You may not believe what he taught or did, but he and his followers were so clearly sincere. We have innumerable journal entries, letters, sermons, testimonies etc from all levels of the Church to spiritual witnnesses and profession of deeply felt beliefs. And we have sufferings in some cases to the level of death at all levels of the Church. True or not there is no sign of a con.
  3. Baptism ceasing? NT Scholars

    Artistic license. Aren't 10 of the tribes lost? 😉
  4. jospeh the con man?

    That is what Mormons believe too. The problem is the traditional Christian comes to a dead stop at the first step of salvation and refuses to go any further despite Christ's teachings. AoF 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then what? The works as you put it. Why? To show obedience to God that he may bless us with blessings beyond salvation as part of being joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
  5. Resurrection Question

    I think level of glory has as much to do with laws obeyed and accepted as personal goodness. All the Terrestrial are the honorable men and women of the earth. They just didn't live the laws and ordinances of God, or in other words did not accept of some truths. The glory of God is intelligence, or in other words truth and light. The glory received will be directly connected to the truth and light accepted AND lived up to. Scripture says not a hair of our head will be lost and that we will raise our bodies up as we lay them down. How the mortal elements become the purified immortal elements of a resurrected body, and what happens to the dross has not been fully revealed, but I don't see any reason to doubt the scriptures on this.
  6. Resurrection Question

    That they have yet to receive their resurrection. Resurrection is an ordinance and is performed by a priesthood head, probably one with direct stewardship (familial relation). I would think those remains would indicate that there is no resurrected person with stewardship over them to perform that ordinance for them yet.
  7. Baptisms for the Dead in the Second Temple?

    I'm no scholar of this period, but I was never under the impression that ANY work for the dead was performed in any Jewish temple. The ordinances of work for the dead were not established until after the death and resurrection of Christ opened those doors. The Jewish temple was built with the old sacrifices and ceremonies in mind. Christ's death changed the requirement of sacrifice and ordinance (or to be more precise, restored ordinances that predated the Mosaic law). Nor was the LDS Endowment performed in the Jewish temple which was built specifically for the ordinances of the Mosaic law. Why would we expect higher ordinances to be found there? I am of the belief that the early Christians were baptized in rivers (and fonts) for the living and the dead. And I also have no idea if the ordinance was carried out in early Christianity after the apostasy. But I did find this. 12th Century Baptismal font of Renier d'Huy of Liege. https://www.google.com/search?q=early+christian+baptismal+font&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidp--b9MPXAhUM2SYKHTLgDKcQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=895#imgrc=_
  8. Progression Between Kingdoms

    Because one of the unforgivable sins is the shedding of innocent blood.
  9. Baptism ceasing? NT Scholars

    The 12 tribes.
  10. Progression Between Kingdoms

    The term unforgivable sin is still part of our doctrine.
  11. jospeh the con man?

    No, the Bible stated that a Bishop should be the husband of at least one wife. It's a minimum, not a maximum. And all the prophets that held priesthood key probably were polygamists. Some we know were. Some there is no record of their family situation. Like Christ. I personally believe he was also a polygamist, being married to Mary, Martha, Mary Magdalene, and probably others.
  12. Progression Between Kingdoms

    You are completely right that this is somewhat speculative in nature based on assumptions and extensions of revealed truths. I want to state that I actually lean more towards progression of kingdoms than progression between them. The temple endowment is a great example, as is the progression of this earth.
  13. Progression Between Kingdoms

    The bottom line is we are talking about not just eternity, but endless eternities forever and ever. The idea that ANY being will be stuck in a limited situation forever more with no hope of escape simply doesn't fit with scripture. We are always going to be progressing or regressing. Stagnancy is the true definition of hell.
  14. Progression Between Kingdoms

    Several of them. The nature of the resurrected bodies, the ministration between kingdoms (to what end?), statements of Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball on eternal progression and learning, the recognition of kingdoms higher than Celestial and Joseph's description of exaltation and his teachings on eternal punishment. And others besides. I have a personal belief that rejects ANY teaching that puts a permanent limit on progression. To my mind it beggars logic and doesn't fit with the way we see God operate. Eternal limitation (ie, damnation) is an old sectarian doctrine in my opinion.
  15. Jesus's statements on marriage

    Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement for the hardness of their hearts (ie, because they asked for it). Yet Jesus said what God has joined let man not put asunder. Which made me think of Brigham's statement I quoted earlier - "Presdent Young spoke 47 Minuts. In speaking of giving divorces He said when he sealed a woman to a man he asked nothing for it but if they asked for a divorce I charge him $10 for his folly for it is no better than a peace of white Paper. For when I seal a woman to a man it takes a higher power than I am to take her away." Suggestion - Yes, Moses granted a bill of divorcement, but perhaps Christ is stating as Brigham did that it takes a higher power to break that sealing and the bill of divorcement really was not better than a piece of white paper (or papyrus ). Doctrinally speaking, without a sealing cancellation (a loosing to counter the sealing) it seems that both Christ and Brigham (and possibly Moses) are saying that divorce papers don't actually cancel the marriage, but are just given for the hardness of their hearts. Perhaps we have a large number of "divorced" members who will be surprised to find themselves still married in the eternities but under condemnation for not living up to that sealing.