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Everything posted by Tacenda

  1. Robert, what do you think of this one? Current revelation? I wonder why the church deleted the words from the quote? I know the church doesn't expect anyone to pay tithing if they don't have the means. So why delete some wording? Or anyone that cares to answer, please do. 🙂 And looking again at the much disdained list, I c/p'd from reddit, I do notice some, all or nothing statements on a few, especially that JS married 12-14 married women and had sex with them which is probably false, but maybe some. We don't have any idea. There are some on the list that I've never heard of so I'd have to research. My apologies for even putting that list in. I could go look and compile a better list of replies but I'm on vacation, so don't have my laptop.
  2. You're right about a couple, the way the poster put them. I am out of town and posted hastily.
  3. Which ones are blatantly false, I didn't write them, just skimmed through them and chose just this sample from the comments on the thread at Reddit.
  4. Is that the only one out of the list you could answer to Bluebell? We're really in trouble then, if so, not asking you to, but that one was pretty minor. Also, so the poster didn't go into full detail, sounds like what the church does exactly, which is definitely misleading. Do you want to see one big one? This meme: https://i.redd.it/o73d3pat6g101.jpg about tithing. The church deleted a couple of important words! I don't understand how you are seeing this so calmly, I'm guessing here, but is it because of the spirit of revelation, that so few get that you can overlook the many problems? If so, that is fine with me. But we can't blame those that don't have that revelation, and have to rely on facts.
  5. Does the church put up stories without vetting them for accuracy? I believe so, in the recent past with Pres. Holland's apologies for sharing a story that wasn't exactly truth. And has happened with different GA's out there. The one that is most known being Paul H. Dunn. Why did the church let that go on for so long or not fact check? Probably because so many members became more faithful or many new members joined because of them? Wasn't this doing what Sam is? Basically when you listen to a GC talk, how sure are we that it is accurate or fact? At least Sam's come from the horse's mouth, instead of several hand stories.
  6. An LDS father that is believing asked this question on reddit below: Me: Thread name, "Mormon Lies"... "Hey everyone, a TBM dad here. One thing I hear a lot in this forum is that the church lied to you. I’m really curious about that—what was said, what was not said, who said it, why it bothered you, etc. I want to be forthright about my reasons for asking: I’m trying to understand bc I don’t understand, and I would like to. Many of the things complained of here, I also learned as a young adult, rather than at home. I didn’t feel betrayed. Some I’m still learning. Not to say I’m better than anyone, but to say I lack the tools to come to an understanding without help. I’d like to avoid creating similar feelings of betrayal in my own kids, if I haven’t already done so. I’d like to help the church address the betrayal issue better. The facts are what they are, but the church should do better. There’s a real issue here, a conversation that isn’t happening, that needs to happen. Also, forgive me: I’m slow in learning internet manners. Feel free to let me know if I’m being offensive. I want to know. After all that, if you’re interested and willing, I would like to hear what happened you, who lied, about what, how it made you feel, etc." Me: There were so many comments and in a nut shell as to why the once believing members left. I think it's a good read to understand why the ex-LDS crowd or inactive non believing ones, left. It's really hard to deny that they had good reasons. Here is one of many of the replies to the father's question: "I feel what I was taught in church about the history of the church was a straight up lie from start to finish. You of course might have known all the following - but I wasn't taught this. Book of Mormon (BOM) translated by JS putting a common rock in his hat and putting his face in the hat. Rock in hat used to locate the golden plates Rock found in a well years before Golden Plates, and used to defraud people in a treasure hunting scam with some serious occult roots Book of Abraham (BOA) papyrus being in churches custody since 1967 BOA papyrus is 2000 years too young to have been written by Abraham BOA papyrus has been translated 100% incorrectly BOA containing facsimiles from a dead guy called Hor, but that somehow Abraham referred to them in the text in 1:12 and 1:14 even though Hor wouldnt be born for 2000 years...and that the facsimiles were doctored. JS married 12-14 women already married to other living men that he was having sex with JS married 2 14 year old girls and propositioned a 12 year old JS lied to the women to get them to marry him, ie promising a 14 year old that herself and her entire family would go straight to the celestial kingdom if she said yes, and was given a 24 hour deadline? That he married mother/daughter pairs and sister/sister pairs making a sealing only argument laughable That he was caught having sex in a barn with Fanny Alger 1 year before the sealing power was returned to the earth That there are at least 4 different versions of the first vision and that they contradict badly That first vision accounts were extremely common back then and 33 other people had them before Joseph in that part of the world, 6 of which are embarrassingly similar to Josephs account. That the BOM was heavily plagiarized from 3 other books (View of the Hebrews/The Late war between the United States and Great Britain and The First Book of Napoleon) That the View of The Hebrews was written by Oliver Cowderys pastor. That at least one of these books was found using plagiarism software (the type they use in college), which compared the Book of Mormon to 110000 other books published before the book of Mormon. That GA Elder BH Roberts researched the similarities between the View of the Hebrews and the BOM around the 1920s for the first presidency and wrote them a report saying ' “Did Ethan Smith’s View of the Hebrews furnish structural material for Joseph Smith’s Book of Mormon? It has been pointed out in these pages that there are many things in the former book that might well have suggested many major things in the other. Not a few things merely, one or two, or a half dozen, but many; and it is this fact of many things of similarity and the cumulative force of them that makes them so serious a menace to Joseph Smith’s story of the Book of Mormon’s origin.” ' That JS Snr had the Tree of Life dream (yep the same one Lehi had) in 1811? That Benjamin K Paddock wrote about a revival in 1826 1 mile from Palmyra 15 months before translation began on the BOM that bears an embarrassing resemblance to King Benjamins speech? That every version of the bible has unique errors in it and that the BOM contains verses from the bible containing errors from the 1769 version of the KJV that JS family owned, along with all the extra KJV words that were added in the 1600's That the parts of Isaiah that are in the BOM were written after Lehis family left Jerusalem...which makes them impossible to be in the BOM. That the temple ceremony was created just 7 weeks after Joseph became a mason That the temple ceremony has zero to do with Solomons temple (which was only about animal sacrifice) and is instead a pagan ritual (nothing to do with christianity) from somewhere around the 16th century to stop apprentice and journeyman stonemasons from going to another town and lying and saying they were master masons (you learn the handshakes in the temple to be a master mason). So you go to the temple and wear a stonemasons apron, and then have a compass and a set square on your breasts forever after. That JS tried to join the Methodist church after he was told not to join any. This is just the tip of the iceberg though - this is just the very beginning of the rabbit hole." Me again: I think if anyone wants to know why members can't leave the church alone or need some huge understanding, read some of the replies, many were such strong members, missionaries etc. I guess the active members who really don't care about these things, seem to last better in some cases in the church. I get the "401 Forbidden" when I try to post the link to the thread over there. But it's quite the thread, and really can't be overlooked. My son, who went on his mission etc. has recently told me he resigned from the church. I haven't told anyone yet, it's his job to do that. It was kind of hard to hear that, weird I know. But most of his friends that all served missions and married in the temple are also on their way out. There is a big problem out there with the millennials. I have friends, a couple, that have two sons (one of them my son's friend) that served missions and the friend of my son, married and wed in the temple and now is sporting tattoos and drinking coffee. His parents visited them out of state recently and he didn't hide it. Little do they know their other son that served a mission, and away at school is drinking and doesn't believe anymore. This will kill them if she finds out, she lost a brother to suicide after he found out the lies in the church and went on a binge of drinking etc and hating on the church and broke his parent's and sisters' hearts. This stuff is no laughing matter. This is serious for those that believe it's no big deal. The church will really have to figure it out, or rely upon those that have had revelation that the church is true and watch as the church dwindles in size.
  7. Beautiful, Why Me! The bold is perfect in how to treat them! And the question on why people need support groups or ? is because losing the testimony after finding things that they feel lied to by the church is quite a shock to the system. The church sets itself up on the highest level, where God is running things.Okay, so if that is so, then even God is questionable to the non believer, because the LDS God is so ingrained and tied in with Mormonism's beliefs. And is a different God basically, then the rest of the Christian world. So any church they try to go to afterwards will feel so different to them. And the thought that an apostate is going to probably go to the lowest kingdom, not that people are afraid of that because they no longer believe, it's their families and friends that they are afraid they will lose because a lot of families love them but really don't have much in common any longer and some will even shun (I've read it and feel it). That is why non believing members will need a support group and love and understanding, and answers they seem to never get! Good to see you posting Why Me!
  8. With my sister, I just want to spend time with her. She's running a venue right by the Ogden Temple, and they are super busy with weddings, receptions, and much more. But I wish I could have just a little time with her. One time she said we'd get together for dinner in a month, but she couldn't for the next 3 months. So sometimes it feels like she's avoiding me. But you do make some good points, it might be too painful for her to see that all of her siblings are inactive and some even nonbelieving. About my ministering couple, I absolutely love the both of them. They've lived all over the US and I think that's why they so easily talk to us. They've met people from all walks of life. The reason I don't want to discuss with them, is that I like the spiritual stuff he brings up instead, and not getting into all the stuff we may disagree on. Or even things he of all people may not know about nor his wife. And again, that's why I value the board so much! ETA: Last visit we had with them, we did discuss many controversial things, and it felt uncomfortable because my husband would bring things up. I like to keep the peace, but he isn't afraid to say anything. But my ministering guy, asked me point blank to think of anything I need answers to and he'd help. But I'm afraid I know too much already, that even CES teachers don't, by being on this board and other boards 24/7.
  9. Rain, it will sound strange but I have the same problem with my son. He still thinks I'm pretty faithful to the church. Even though I don't go to church anymore. I was that all in and he remembers how much, so he's still slow to realize. Around him I will come up with all kinds of good things the church does, even with my crisis of not believing anymore. I guess he worries I'll go back. He's the youngest and he and I aren't as close, I blame the time I spent on Mormonism as far as research and discussion boards that took me away from him. My fault for doing this, but he hates the church with compassion. So I'm scared to talk with him and argue. The lack of communication and closeness is the hardest part for me with my sister. Just the thought of her asking about what I've been through, or wanting to go for a walk or go to lunch, is all I'd like. She is really busy with her life but I wish she'd want to carve out just a few minutes with me. She's older, and if I had a little sister, I'd be in her life, I know I would. So it hurts.
  10. Maybe if he were on the other side he'd see the problem, haha! I'm on the other side with my sister who is all in and has pulled back from me quite a bit. I've told her little of what I've found disturbing about the church. I mentioned JS's polygamy as being what started it. She's yet to discuss why or what I found disturbing about it. She won't say a word, other than maybe Satan is working on me. Why is it that this is the same over and over with those that struggle over church history etc. that believing members won't ask what the issues are? It seems they are afraid. But then on this board not at all. And currently my ministering people, he's a CES teacher at LDS Business College, knows the warts and wants me to discuss them, but I don't usually, because I have this board. But my sister won't go near the subject. I'm just a huge disappointment to her. She and I were the only ones in our family of six children that stayed active with temple recommends, so now that I'm not then it's surely hard on her. But hard for me to lose my sister over it as well.
  11. I guess that is a reason I don't see that bishops are ex'd if it's that confidential. In the old days they would announce members that were excommunicated, maybe it's just those that were apostate. I know I didn't answer your CFR as well as I would have liked, but I'm very willing to say if I'm wrong, and maybe I was wrong to assume so much.
  12. Here is a list of several bishops that have sexually abused. The one below is one where he had his recommend confiscated. And there are a couple that were ex'd. I read through most, but I'm going to bed now. If I don't have nightmares after reading through these cases. I'll be lucky. https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6/60/INSTANCES_OF_CHILD_SEXUAL_ABUSE_ALLEGEDLY_PERPETRATED_BY_MEMBERS_OF_THE_CHURCH_OF_JESUS_CHRIST_OF_LATTER-DAY_SAINTS-2017-06.pdf LDS Rex Furness, a Bishop in the LDS church was sentenced to two months in jail and seven years probation for sexually assaulting his teenage granddaughter. "The Idaho Falls Post Register reported the following on November 13, 1996: "A former state senator [Rex Furness] will be spending the next two months in jail for sexually battering his teenage granddaughter.... Furness will serve 60 days in the county jail, and seven years probation.... “He was also very active in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, holding various titles, including bishop until he confessed the acts to his church and surrendered his temple recommend.” http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no92.htm “What he did not say in court was that the charge against him forced him to resign from the state senate." “Republican officials say they plan no disciplinary action now against Rigby Sen. Rex Furness, who has been charged with a felony count of sexual battery on a minor. The party was shaken following news Wednesday that Furness was charged in Madison County District court.” May 17, 1996 in Idaho Charges Take Gop Legislators By Surprise Republicans Express Shock, Plan No Action Against Furness Yet Associated Press http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1996/may/17/charges-take-gop-legislators-by-surprise/ March 26, 1997 in Idaho Court To Clarify Ex-Senator’s Probation Rules Associated Press
  13. In jail they can have repentance. And pretty sure I could give you a long list of bishops that have abused, but haven't seen where they've been ex'd have you? If most have then I'll eat my words and apologize. It will be interesting to see how Jeff Head will do, if he'll be ex'd. This is current enough that we can see together.
  14. And in this quote from the KSL article, the boy that was abused has dropped out of his former life basically. There is something up here. I think it may be because Head was a bishop compared to Van Wagenen's status possibly, of course Sterling produced temple movies! The young man's life will equally be changed as some mentioned Heads will be, but the young man is innocent and Head isn't. " Once a star athlete and a young leader in their church, he has withdrawn from sports, let his grades tank and has lost conviction in his faith, she said." ETA: I was mistaken, the quote isn't the boy who was told to pull his pants down and show the surgery, but the other boy but I'm sure both are severly affected by Head's actions. Also, I need to share that Sam Young's project of protecting children from bishop's one on one interviews stands solid, sadly the church ex'd the guy, but I wonder how many bishops etc. are ex'd? Nope, they are given another chance for repentence usually, which can be done in jail, honestly. And Sam was a bishop, but he went against the church. I think the children are more important than the church here. Maybe that's considered a strawman. But I believe the church's past history seems to forget the innocent sometimes.
  15. It could have been 15 years to life! Wow, such a difference. "In exchange for his guilty pleas, prosecutors in both counties have agreed to seek sentences of at least six years and up to life in prison that will run concurrently, Shapiro said. Van Wagenen originally faced 15 years to life for each count."https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900068722/sundance-co-founder-sterling-van-wagenen-pleads-guilty-to-a-second-abuse-charge.html
  16. I have family in Draper and one who is in office and friends with Hughes. The sentence is terrible, especially when comparing the recent case of the Sundance Film Institute's co-founder Sterling Van Wagenen who got six years to life, and he fondled two people, such as this bishop did, pitiful!
  17. Good find, but I'll bet there's an answer, there always is.
  18. That's not following It would make sense for each world to have their own Saviour, if the LDS doctrine of men becoming Gods is still true. Because each man will become God and therefore will have a son who will make the same sacrifice if another couple in the garden needs their eyes open.
  19. My nephew on my husband's side was sexually abused by a foreign exchange student when younger at a friend's house. But that didn't make him gay, he may have been a target because the perp sensed that. And my nephew has an aunt, his mom's sister that is gay, so maybe it came down in the genes. Not sure.
  20. Well, this episode didn't make your father gay did it? Were you trying to say that the Broadway star is gay because he had a sexual encounter with an older man at 16? Not trying to be rude, I just wanted you to see that it is ludicrous to think a sexual abuse encounter can turn someone gay, if that is what you or Nehor were getting at, of course Nehor was saying an abused person could cause someone to become transgender, I believe. ETA: I wanted to say how sorry I am that your dad suffered such a traumatic experience.
  21. This just hit me, hadn't thought about it before especially when thinking that it is such a simple thing to pray and be in a circle. But then when you mentioned the circle might be a substitute of going to the temple itself, it made me wonder if they were also making covenants in the circle as well, is that what they were doing? And side note, when I was a preteen, my friend and I did stupid stuff with prank phone calls. One of them was calling the nuns at the local Catholic parrish to pray for us and we'd give them a random name, mean I know.
  22. I have a niece that may be on the precipice of this, she dresses and looks like the male gender but she has come out as gay. Which is what a lot of trans do...for one, Chaz Bono. There is a documentary of his transformation called "Becoming Chaz", that I'll watch later that is on Amazon Prime and other networks. I doubt my niece would transition and btw, the study you read that there being a reason for it, such as trauma in childhood, would not be my niece. I think there are so many reasons, such as the body make up that could cause one to be gay or trans. And, I believe the "t" belongs in LGBTQ and maybe a few other letters are going to be added! If you have Amazon here is a link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B00A2KI8CU/ref=atv_dl_rdr
  23. https://deseretbook.com/p/not-even-once-club-wendy-watson-nelson-88683?variant_id=7444-hardcover
  24. Good to know, thanks for your patience. I'm really such a kindergartner when it comes to scriptures. Or maybe not even that far! I don't belong in these threads where scripture is spoken, usually because I lack so much in this area. I will take a look at Revelation!
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