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About DBMormon

  • Rank
    Strengthening Feeble Knees and Lifting Hands that Hang Down
  • Birthday 09/14/1978

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    Sandusky Ohio
  • Interests
    Geneaology, Grace & Doctrine of Christ, Mormon History, Cleveland Browns, Apologetics, discussing Faith Crisis

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  1. DBMormon

    Evidence for the Book of Abraham

    Best evidence that Joseph was onto something is this.... and yet it is not enough to overcome the problems
  2. REASONS THE MISSING SCROLL THEORY DOES NOT WORK: – We know because of Abraham 1:12 and 1:14 itself points to Facsimile 1 and the very text in the papyri following it as the source text of the book of Abraham – We know from the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar document that if we choose to be rational and logical the most reasonable interpretation of that document is that it represents Joseph Smith’s translation of The Book of Abraham. – An early Egyptologist named Gustavus Seyffarth viewed the missing papyrus in 1856 and described only the Hor text and Facsimile 3. He gave no indication of another text on the scroll, and in fact explicitly denied that the scroll contained a record of Abraham. – Klaus Baer predicted that the missing portion of the Hor text would be around sixty centimeters. Others who have attempted the estimate of the missing length agreed almost exactly with Baer’s estimate. In the end a Missing Scroll theory is simply a Red Herring. Why we know that a missing scroll does not matter? We know where Joseph was translating and it was on the existing papyri. There is a set of documents that the church has always had in its possession commonly referred to as the “Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar” by Joseph Smith. Most of us remember hearing a little bit about it growing up in the church but not really knowing what it was. It was only briefly and rarely mentioned in church. With the discovery of the missing papyri in 1966, critics claim that these documents show a definite link between the papyri and the actual text of the Book of Abraham. The manuscript is in the handwriting of William W. Phelps and Warren Parrish, scribes to Joseph Smith, Jr. It is a bound book with handwriting on 34 pages with about 184 blank pages remaining throughout the book. There are characters in a left hand column with English explanations to the right. Original in LDS archives. There are 4 pages in Joseph Smith’s handwriting. REASONS THE CATALYST THEORY DOES NOT WORK: – The Times and Seasons with Joseph Smith as Editor along with Mormonism’s heading to the Pearl of Great Price in the past claimed the papyri was the writings of Abraham. – The Times and Seasons with Joseph Smith as Editor along with Mormonism’s heading to the Pearl of Great Price in the past claimed it was written by Abraham’s own hand. If the Catalyst Theory is correct, then God must be responsible for misleading Smith about the identity of the author of the papyri characters. – Joseph and his scribes wrote down the very symbols from the papyri we have along with a proposed meaning of those hieroglyphics and symbols in a document named Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar indicating strongly a literal translation. – Joseph Smith‘s translation and restoration of the facsimiles was incorrect. If the Catalyst Theory is correct, then God must be responsible for instructing Smith to incorrectly translate and restore the facsimiles. – The text of the Book of Abraham itself (1:12 and 1:14) declares that the source of the Book of Abraham has the Facsimile 1 fragment at its commencement, which is the Breathing Permit of Hor. If the Catalyst Theory is correct, then God must be responsible for instructing Smith to record verses in the Book of Abraham that incorrectly refer to the Facsimile 1 fragment. – The Small Sensen (Breathing Permit of Hor) characters are copied in order into the manuscripts where they are translated into the Book of Abraham. Therefore, Smith‘s own manuscripts indicate that the source of the Book of Abraham is the Small Sensen. If the Catalyst Theory is correct, then God must be responsible for misleading Smith to believe that the source of the Book of Abraham was the Small Sensen. – The Egyptian Alphabets end with two characters which appear in the manuscripts as the beginning of the Small Sensen and which translate into Abraham 1:1. Therefore, the Egyptian Alphabets indicate that the source of the Book of Abraham is the Small Sensen. If the Catalyst Theory is correct, then God must be responsible for misleading Smith to believe that the source of the Book of Abraham was the Small Sensen. Conclusion: I see no solution that deals with these items without requiring far more allowances and leeway than fraud. I would welcome a working theory that deals with the points above namely Abraham 1:12, 14 It should also be noted that the geography of the BOA also is deeply problematic Ur and Chaldees versus where the egyptians had influence and land and authority is deeply problematic without adding a second Ur which has been attempted but has essentially little to no evidence. So anyone have a rational working theory that deals with this data and also doesn't require a ton of allowances that make it irrational?
  3. DBMormon

    Bill Reel Invited to Disciplinary Council

    One received the "cough Cough" special ordinance and the other didn't.... I think that does play a part like it or not
  4. DBMormon

    Bill Reel Invited to Disciplinary Council

    this still represents my testimony quite well https://mormondiscussions.org/discussion/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/The-Testimony-of-Bill-Reel.pdf
  5. DBMormon

    Bill Reel Invited to Disciplinary Council

    I see what you did there.
  6. DBMormon

    Bill Reel’s Conference Predictions

    I was informed by my source weeks before. I was told to not go public until I got the go ahead. That happened when I made the post. Facebook is not the only place I talked about this as I also did a podcast on it.
  7. DBMormon

    Bill Reel’s Conference Predictions

    The two I said I was most confident would happen in conference did (2 hour block and SLC temple closing for renovation). The others came from the same source and I was informed weeks before conference hence I have confidence that most if not all of my reported rumors were discussed in top councils pf the church. I also said upfront that I didn't expect all of these to happen, only that if the two I said would did, you could be confident about the others being in a discussion at top levels. So... theres that
  8. you actually help my point. If having determined adherents in the most crazy and absurd of religions occurs then surely it will happen in a religion that is slightly less absurd or even only mildly absurd. Pointing out that people maintain faith after knowing the issues and still believe and hence the religion must be reasonable and rational simply is a non-sequitur
  9. sure. people believe all kinds of things in spite of overwhelming evidence. Flat earthers, scientologists, Donald Trump is a good man,......... etc etc....
  10. it pushes for transparency and vulnerability and honesty..... so harm
  11. you should get to know me personally. I have a good solid group of 6 friends plus my wife and we are together every weekend pretty much. They would describe me as funny, soft, at peace, full of happiness and enjoying life. I have another couple dozen who see me close enough and regular enough to second those observations. People should not take the one facet of my speaking out against the unhealthiness of Mormonism as an indicator of how at peace I am in my daily life. That would be a grievous error. Come spend a few a days in southern Utah As to pursuing study , learning, and growing...... I think I am very much doing those things. 99% of them are outside Mormonism.
  12. you argue from a perspective I don't hold. You make only answers which support that paradigm as worthy and from God. Such is Ethnocentric and I no longer inhabit a space where God is limited with working with me in the most efficient way inside Mormonism. In other words I hold ground that God has just as much ability to work with me outside Mormonism and perhaps even do greater things. I am happy to stay on the rolls but I will not reduce my standing for what I believe in in order to do so. Hence it is at this point up to them. They are also welcome to sit with me and see if my concerns can be addressed in other ways but it appears that is not an approach they want to take. There is nothing inside institutional Mormonism that is affecting my life for Good that outweighs the trauma and harm I was experiencing weekly. There are still things inside the tribe that if I can be inactive and be on the rolls I welcome. But even if they excommunicate me, I still am seen as by those who matter to me and see myself as Mormon. So in all honesty I am in a position where it can no longer take from me. I am at peace. The court of love will be traumatic and I will feel more trauma inflicted on me through it (And so will my stake president by the way). But because I will not choose to step away from standing up for what I believe, They now have to do what they think is right and it is now up to them. They can reach out to build bridges. I have tried numerous times both behind the scenes with Elder Holland and others as well as local leaders. At the end of the day, no one offers to make space to be vulnerable to tough questions and no one wants to admit any Church caused trauma or wrongdoing above the local level.
  13. Its strange because no one has ever informed me I did something wrong in terms of rules (as far as I remember) and find it strange that I am a limited participant here. I would welcome clarification but know not where to find it. Strange
  14. who did i call a name without facts? Elder Holland? I have and am happy to give facts.