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About Okrahomer

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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  1. God probably won't allow us to find Nahom

    Not that it will make the slightest difference to you, but it was Mormon actually. Mormon wrote these words as an abridgement of Nephi’s record, and it was he who made the decision to include the name of Ishmael’s burial place along with a description of his daughters’ exceeding mourning. Most of the place names included in the Book of Mormon are names the Lehites assigned to those locations themselves (Valley of Lemuel, River of Laman, Land of Lehi); so the fact that this one place—Nahom—is included in the text as a preexistent place name is unique and therefore significant. Mormon’s abridgement does not tell us where Lehi was buried. It doesn’t even mention Sariah’s death; nor do we know where Nephi was buried. We also know nothing about anyone’s reaction. But for some reason, Mormon opted to include these details in the case of Ishmael. That seems (at least to me) to be an interesting choice—especially in view of the pivotal role Lehi and Nephi played in the founding of the Lehite nation. I do not know if we are seeing actual “wordplay” at work here; and it doesn’t much matter to me if the NHM inscriptions at Bar’an have a real connection to the Book of Mormon Nahom. But your “mere coincidence” arguments have become increasingly unconvincing.
  2. God probably won't allow us to find Nahom

    1 Nephi 16 34 And it came to pass that Ishmael died, and was buried in the place which was called Nahom. 35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did mourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father,
  3. Would you worship a God who commanded lying?

    This John Piper sermon is quite interesting. He says "it is possible" that righteous and godly people in extreme situations are "constrained" to lie. He gives some excellent examples: Exodus 1, Israelite midwives lied to Pharaoh about killing newborn baby boys. Joshua 2, Rahab hid the Israelite spies and lied about it.
  4. conference today

    https://wheatandtares.org/2014/10/30/proclamation-written-by-lawyers/ "My understanding is that Mckonkie et. al. didn’t have a hand in writing it but the innitial draft was largely written by one of the law professors at the Y (whose name I am spacing and whose fingerprints are apparently easy to see all over it), but expressly for the Hawaii court cases so the church could file as an interested party(probably on the council of lawyers at McKonkie. I would guess that saying the lawyers along with Elder Oaks “commissioned” the PoF is probably a pretty fair description). Certainly, final wording was massaged and approved by the 12 (probably in conjunction with a committee with some 70s with some expertise), regardless of who had the work of drafting and itterating it."
  5. BYU Caffeine is APPROVED - Breaking news!

    It was only a matter of time before the administration had to do something to help 60,000 fans stay AWAKE during this year's version of BYU Cougar football. <Yaaawn...>
  6. Martin Luther: The Idea That Changed The World

    James 2:29 bears no resemblance or relationship to 1 Corinthians 12:3. One describes how a devil reacts to the one true God; and the other tells us that a MAN cannot declare that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith, the MAN, said this: “Salvation could not come to the world without the mediation of Jesus Christ.” “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." “When we reflect upon the holiness and perfections of our great Master, who has opened a way whereby we may come unto him, even by the sacrifice of himself, our hearts melt within us for his condescension. And when we reflect also, that he has called us to be perfect in all things, that we may be prepared to meet him in peace when he comes in his glory with all the holy angels, we feel to exhort our brethren with boldness, to be humble and prayerful, to walk indeed as children of the light and of the day, that they may have grace to withstand every temptation, and to overcome every evil in the worthy name of our Lord Jesus Christ. For be assured, brethren, that the day is truly near when the Master of the house will rise up and shut the door, and none but such as have on a wedding garment will be permitted to enjoy a seat at the marriage supper!"
  7. I quite like Wulf Barsch and Brian Kershisnik.
  8. Martin Luther: The Idea That Changed The World

    1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
  9. oops Women

    I have some "personal" experience with this--actually my brother's and my son's experiences. In both cases, their former spouses were sent letters to which they were asked to respond. In my brother's case, his former spouse responded negatively to a question about whether or not he should be allowed to be married in the Temple; so, at least for several months, she was able to prevent him from marrying in the Temple. Happily, he was eventually able to address her concerns, and she finally gave her permission. But here's the kicker: she's never even been a member of the Church. It seems pretty equal to me.
  10. God probably won't allow us to find Nahom

    Ich glaube du bist ein bissel verrückt, oder?
  11. God probably won't allow us to find Nahom

    Some of the inscriptions are definitely dated "after Nephi." However, many are dated to the "old Sabaean Period." I linked to the Wiki article to give you a "general" date for the “old Sabaean Period” (9th - 6th centuries BC.) This is based on inscriptions and other texts. But the Wiki article does not mention the inscriptions at Bar'an. Per the Wiki article, there was also a "middle Sabaean Period" (3rd century BC - 300 AD) and a "late Sabaean Period" (400 AD - 600 AD.) Nebes dates all of the incscription in the Katalog, and those that he categorizes as "Old Sabaean" inscriptions are date coded (Datierung) with "aSab"--and then he adds a suffix of "A", "B", or "C". You can read the explanation of the date code on page 118: "Unterpunktes sind die Inschriften chronologisch angeordnet, wobei fur die altsabaische Zeit (aSab) die Grobdatierung in die drei Phasen A, B und C in oben dargelegtem Sinne vorgenommen wird." Translation: “The inscriptions are chronologically arranged, with coarse dating into three phases A, B and C for the Old Sabaean period (aSab) in the above-mentioned sense.” Nebes discusses the fact that some of the inscriptions include the name “Karib’il Watar”, a known historical figure who lived in the 7th century BC. On page 114 Nebes explains that the appearance of "Karib'il Watar" in the inscriptions provides the one “absolute” date—685 BC. Footnote 34 on page 115 explains that this is indicated in the “Katalog” as aSabB.
  12. God probably won't allow us to find Nahom

    I think you must be using Google translate or some other online tool to help you. That's fine, but you are misunderstanding a great deal in the process. Your first paragraph actually confirms what has already been pointed out: the Sabaeans were inscribing their language in stone prior to, contemporaneously with, and subsequent to the time that Lehi and his family traveled through Arabia. This fact is confirmed in the journal article which notes that more than 70 inscriptions were found at Bar'an. Most of these inscriptions belong to the old Sabaean period, and others are linked to the middle Sabaean period. The wiki link I gave you indicates this: "Old Sabaean: mostly boustrophedon inscriptions from the 9th until the 8th century BC and including further texts in the next two centuries from Ma'rib and the Highlands." So we have inscriptions in old Sabaean stretching from the 9th century BC to the 6th century BC. Nebes provides information for each of the inscriptions in the "Anhang - Katalog" section of the journal article. Each of the inscriptions has been assigned a date (Datierung) code. ALL of the "NHM" inscriptions (there 4 of them) are dated to the Old Sabaean period; however, Nebes also uses a reference within these inscriptions to link to an historical figure (Karib'il Watar) in order to set the so-called "absolute" date. I believe "absolute" in this case means these particular inscriptions (which Nebes assigns a sub code "B") could not pre-date 685 BC. Three of the four "NHM" inscriptions are dated "B". The Lehites did not bury Ishmael in Nahom until about 592 BC. Finally, Nebes mentions that carbon-dating of some parts of the excavation had yielded an 8th century BC result.
  13. God probably won't allow us to find Nahom

    Are you sure of that? The “Katalog” indicates that there are four altar inscriptions which include the word “nhm”. All of these are dated to the “Old Sabaean Period" (i.e., 9th - 6th century B.C.) Of these, three were dated to the “B” period and one to the “C” period. The “B” period is the only one that actually includes a fairly specific "absolute" date (685 B.C.) I don’t see that the “C” period has been correlated to a specific time other than that it was "before Christ."
  14. The Church is growing so fast...

    I grew up in Oklahoma. Never met a GA then or since, but I knew about the seer stones. My recollection is that it came up in seminary. I don't recall any of us being very upset about it. By the way, here's a link to an article in the September 1974 Friend where it is clearly discussed: "To help him with the translation, Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate." Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone...Even with the help of the Urim and Thummim and the seer stone, it wasn’t easy to translate the sacred record. It required the Prophet’s greatest concentration and spiritual strength." And here's another link to the September 1977 Ensign which includes a description of how the prophet used a hat in the process as well.
  15. Looking for a quotation of Joseph Smith

    This is good to know!