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CA Steve

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About CA Steve

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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  1. Rob Porter, and Mormonism's #MeToo Moment

    My experience with watching news reporters pushing microphones in the faces of people who just learned a family member had tragically died, tells me that reporters care very little for the feelings of victims and their families.
  2. Your problem is obvious, you have no experience in leadership so you do not know what they can and cannot do, That is your own fault for being a woman.
  3. Rob Porter, and Mormonism's #MeToo Moment

    Again, how hard is it to make a phone call? If there was no error in the opinion piece (IOW the same standards do not apply for some reason) why did the DN publish an apology for the initial piece? Why are we defending the DN when they themselves recognize an error had been made? The author himself said He rightly acknowledges the "journalist failings". Maybe we should stop trying to defend what he himself says was wrong?
  4. I think men hearing a female voice telling them they were in apostasy for not following directions would be a radical change. I also predict that when that time comes, men in the church will lose their hearing even more rapidly than they do now.
  5. What you say is true, and both genders are doing this, but the problem is that only one gender is allowed to make decisions that really matter in the church. Even though women may tend to defend what other women say, it has little to no affect on what the outcome is, since the men are the ones who get to tell whom to shut up and who gets to act as if nothing is wrong. This would radically change if women were allowed into the priesthood.
  6. Rob Porter, and Mormonism's #MeToo Moment

    What I know is that the article was published after he divorced two different women. Are you saying the DN didn't have any responsibility to interview his ex wives? He is a very bright, good looking very wealthy LDS man with two ex wives. In our culture those are pretty big red flag, especially for someone who is the focus of a puff piece. How hard can it be to pick up the phone and call the wives? So yes, that is a reasonable expectation, which is validated by the fact the author is apologizing for the article. I am not sure why you are defending DN when they themselves acknowledged a problem?
  7. And the Rob Porter story perfectly exemplifies this. Initially both Hatch, Trump, and Kelly rushed to defend him. Not until more information surfaced did the retractions start..
  8. Here's the thing. I am not ready to tar and feather him.....yet. I believe he should be allowed to defend himself. If it turns out to be true, I'll bring the tar, you bring the feathers. But the whole problem here is the different way each gender, for the most part is approaching the situation. Men for the most part are complaining about lack of due process, how not all accusations are true, how we need to forgive and move on because we are not all perfect. Valid opinions to one extent or another but clearly looking at these situations as if the man may not be guilty. An approach I have seen time and time again taken by bishops and SP's. We need to start looking at these situations as if the woman as an equal chance of telling the truth, otherwise we just victimize her all over again, take away her due process and convict her in the court of public opinion. If we even got to that point it would be a huge improvement. In my opinion we should start with assuming the women is a victim, but that is probably never going to happen as long as men predominantly control the leadership roles. Women who speak out will continue to just be labeled as more "Fake News".
  9. Look at the way this discussion is breaking down along gender lines. Not a single women here is defending the SP. The men participating might want to ask themselves why that is. The older I get the more obvious it is to me how privileged men are in general. The recent threads on Rob Porter are great examples of this. The automatic response from many men is to protest that not all accusations are true, or that the man has lost his "due process", that the women is somehow to blame because she made him angry or that women always have their freedom to leave. The underlying defense in all of these comments is somehow the current case being discussed may be because the woman was wrong. How about we start out with the assumption she might be a victim and then proceed?
  10. Evidently it depends on whether or not it is a woman or a man telling the truth
  11. They are similar because SP are not perfect. Can a SP make a mistake when he thinks a member is speaking against church doctrine too or is it just in other areas like interpersonal relationships that they can be wrong? I think they can make a mistake in any area. That is where the similarity occurs.
  12. In othopraxy there is no difference. And by the way I totally agree with you, but what you are seeing is yet another example of how we claim our leadership is fallible but we don't act as if it is.
  13. That isn't the point. I agree that there are times when speech should be limited though I do not think this is one of them. Regardless of whether or not it is, the part that bothers me is how this method, that of defining apostasy as a failure to follow direction, allows leadership to avoid, if they wish, any discussion of why the decision was made. So the SP can simply tell her she is being disciplined for failing to follow his instructions". He does not have to defend why he made the decision. That is what I find problematic, because it leaves no recourse on the part of the censured party.
  14. While I strongly disagree with this method, it is exactly how it works and from a leadership POV, does make perfect sense. The leader does not have to justify why he is taking the action, and only has to show the member has failed to obey instructions. Of course it looks really bad in a situation like this, but I did not see a lot of members complaining when the same method was used to excommunicate Kelly, Dehlin and Snuffler.
  15. Juliann, From my perspective the church places a lot more emphasis on dressing modestly for the women than it does the men. If you agree with that, do you think that has the unintended effect of making men believe women are partially to blame when women are sexually assaulted? That they provoked the attack by dressing immodestly?