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Storm Rider

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Everything posted by Storm Rider

  1. It would not surprise me to see that this process has evolved with each prophet and over time. I suspect the early prophets of the restoration, beginning with Brigham Young, were more autocratic while as time passed the desire for agreement was wanted.
  2. This is a position that conflicts with Judeo-Christian religious history and the history of the restored Church. It is an exaggeration of the principle of having a prophet and apostles while ignoring that prophets and apostles actually must follow someone - God. The fact that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church precludes the hair-brained actions that this type of exaggerated concept promotes or, at least, attempts to propose.
  3. I think the resistance to using other terms, such as gay, is due to the meaning of such term. It demands certain assumptions are accepted of those who use it exclusively. There is zero difference between saying John is attracted to members of his own sex and John has same sex attraction. They both mean the same thing. However, saying John is gay is similar to saying John is white or black. One is a choice and the other is a statement of fact beyond choice. The gay agenda demands that a person with SSA be called gay because to them there is absolutely no question of choice - they are positing that it is the same as skin color, eye color, etc. No, I am not willing to enter into 12,555th discussion of is it choice on this board again. Studies have shown that human sexuality is fluid. An individual is not strictly, solely attracted to the opposite sex or the same sex. The more we choose a single sex - the opposite for example, the more our expression of choice will follow that choice. For me, because of the studies done, I will not argue the point further. I will admit that for those of us that have made a choice and lived with that choice, whichever it might be, it seems unthinkable that our choice could be anything but a "choice" - we want to think it is the only way we could possibly "be". If you talk to a straight guy, he will think it impossible that he choose any other way. If you talk to a gay woman, she will think it impossible that she choose a partner other than another female. For those that want to make a distinction by using the term SSA rather than using the term gay, the objective is to define a difference between who we, as individuals, may be attracted to and the actual physical expression of that attraction. Although I use the term gay far more often, I recognize that my line of thinking is almost exclusively SSA. Saying John is gay is just easier than the lengthier John has same sex attraction. Yet, in serious conversation I will use the phrase/term SSA because it has value and import. I am sure that its value is the very reason why the gay community does not want people to use it. One day, I hope to have a conversation with God on why some individuals of one gender imitate the attractions of the opposite sex. Why are some women so masculine and why are some men so feminine. What was the purpose of being so cruel to individuals as to give them these attractions, which almost undeniably leads them into sin? In my better moments I also recognize that the utter loneliness experienced by these children of God - if they choose to follow God's plan for them - echoes the loneliness experienced by the Savior himself. Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani - I can hear the faithful child of God repeating that same thing often during their life. I believe that most, if not all, of God's children will experience the pain of such acute loneliness that the those words, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" bring to mind. Yet, I believe those who have same sex attraction and are faithful know this loneliness and have more in common with the Savior than most of us.
  4. and the Catholic community uses it also, but hey, they are only the largest Christian church in the world.....who suffers from having their priesthood overrun with priests who do not have an illness or malady, but are seriously attracted to the same sex, which sounds a lot like same sex attraction. Their choice to act on their same sex attraction has caused enormous pain and suffering for themselves and the adults and young people they have abused, but that is another topic.
  5. I don't see the proposed conflict you are seeking. No where in either scripture does it discuss the fact that humans are attracted to other humans and that attraction is wrong. No are stretching - if you have evil thoughts is the point of the scripture. This goes well beyond the thought, "Gosh, that individual is beautiful." It is not lustful, but honest, simple attraction between two humans. Let's try to be more realistic when citing scripture; this does not come close to what you are trying to make them say.
  6. The most that can be said is that the level of individual scholarship covers the entire gamut - there is no real, minimum standard. There are exceptional scholars and others much less so. We do not have a formal, educated priesthood. The objectives of the priesthood in the LDS movement are different than those found in Traditional Orthodox churches of today.
  7. When I read this, my initial reaction was thinking of the cases of sexual harassment/abuse, etc., brought against young men at other universities. Seems like I have read these types of things where the young man is brought up on violations without knowing his accuser or the exact charges and not able to be represented by an attorney - i.e. not having any support. It would sadden me if this was the case at BYU, but I am gladdened that these things are not made clear for all parties concerned when potential violations are alleged.
  8. I understand your position and I reject it. It is born of fear, fear of making an error in following another regardless of how it is dressed in words of responsibility. It is also faithless - God is prevented from calling anyone to lead another. Further, it is complete chaos because it creates a world of blind individuals adamantly ignoring all things but their own desires, which each is convinced is the truth. This is easily seen in the Protestant world of Christianity. Our personal responsibility is never completely abdicated. This is easily observed in Nephi's questioning of the command to slay Laban. Did he question the angel? Yes, yet he remained faithful and walked in faith. When our faith is in God and we seek his kingdom - it is our faith in God that we follow, not our faith in a given prophet or any other leader. You make a caricature of the faithful, which has nothing to do with true discipleship.
  9. Go ahead, how long was it legal? LOL, those few months from May to November ain't much, but go ahead, stretch if it makes you feel good.
  10. I don't see the irony that you are alleging took place. I believe that God approves of plural marriage for a small minority of individuals and his people have practiced it as such since almost the very beginning. To take a stand in support of God's direction seem the appropriate step. At no time has God said, "Oh, by the way, all that stuff I said about reproduce and fill earth being one of the main reasons for your existence, I was kidding. I really just want to my children to have sex with anyone they want and be hedonists." As a result, I don't see a conflict to take a stand on religious grounds. Equality has never been about being identical; we are not and never have been. We are individuals with different roles to play. Thank God the prophet, the pope, and the vast majority of Christian leaders still take a stand that homosexuality is wrong by God's direction and have not pandered to secularism of today's world.
  11. Please don't confuse the facts with the Gay Agenda and their activists. It is so much more effective to ignore facts and restructure history to make sure you score points. Gads, do I hate this kind of drivel, but thank you for at least trying.
  12. I suspect the a most young people's initial feelings for their future mate entertained lust. Then, marriage happens and lust is intertwined with love. As we age together, have children, raise a family, lust disappears as love grows into something that we did not know was possible. If you are trying to say that two individuals - regardless of gender - can be in love with each other. Of course! It does not matter what sexual preference they have. As I already stated, humans can love almost anything - from cats and dogs to birds and trees....as well as another human.
  13. I think you stated that well. One of the more god-like qualities that humans have been given is the ability to love. Too often, the word love is overused and trite; even more often the word love is used when the more appropriate word is lust. Love has nothing to do with gender and it has just as little to do with humans. Humans can love almost anything. The attempt to ennoble a relationship because two individuals love each other is foolish and trite. Humans can love dogs, cats, birds, trees, old quilts, and old pictures of specific individuals. If you can think of it, I suspect that humans have loved it.
  14. I am not sure love has anything to do with marriage - at least initially. I don't recall God ever asking Adam, "Do you love her?" Nor does love have anything to do with arranged marriages in the world. Love is something that grows with a marriage. In the US, I suspect the vast majority of marriages start out more in lust than love. Ask any older couple if their love today is the same as the love when they were first married. Should sinners be treated like children of God? Of course. However, society has often chosen throughout history to strongly disapprove of certain things. These things change from one thing to another; humans are fickle beings and when left to their own devices they cannot decide what they like or not. There have been periods in history when what was once bad becomes acceptable only to fall back into disfavor. I won't be taking any bets on how the future deals with this topic that troubles the moral fiber of today's society. I don't any Christian church that states they believe in the Bible as the Word of God will ever begin to teach that homosexuality is acceptable in any degree. There will be and there are a number of Christian churches that have begun to change their belief systems and necessarily forfeit many of the theological bulwarks they have held from the beginning of their belief systems. The Church of God and the Body of Christ will become more clearly delineated from those churches of created in the minds of men. This was foretold and should not be a surprise to anyone.
  15. What of the great beauties of this world is never having to waste time on things; we can choose who we socialize with and hang with for fun. This sour, small-brained fellow is the type of human I an assure others I never have as a friend. I detest whiners and this poor chap is desperate to be a whiner. If not this topic, he will find a 1003 other topics to whine about. It was raining today, weather is fresh, and grandkids are wonderful. Even better, my wife is loving life and we are both grateful and proud she has made life better for all of us.
  16. That is what causes problems for many that try to overcome and/or abandon the role of the Church organization that Jesus instituted. The relationship with Jesus Christ is personal, but he has called his prophets and apostles to guide his flock. The mere fact that these leaders are human seems to enable some to assume leaders can be ignored....after all, they are just men. God has called them; if they do wrong, who pays the eternal price? His servants that he has called. Who is blessed for obedience? His flock. Some would rather abandon what they know to be true in exchange for putting their faith in the their own strength. That is and will always be building one's house on sand.
  17. We don't disagree in this area at all. Bishops come in all types, abilities, and levels/degrees of spirituality. Some seem to be almost perfect and others not so much. Our daughter had a bad experience with a bishop at BYUI and has never recovered fully from that experience. I am sure he did the best he could or did what he thought was right, but he blew it on many levels. Yet, I have had bishops that were excellent and seem to perfectly understand how best to handle situations. What I try and do is to understand what is most important for my salvation and how best to interact with the bishop. I try to be clear in my objectives with him and go from there.
  18. The purpose of confession is to assist in cleansing one's soul. It is my understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that the Savior is ready and is fully prepared to forgive as soon as we ask for forgiveness. However, the challenge is learning to forgive oneself. One of the great tools of the Evil One is to lead us to a conclusion that we are not capable of being forgiven; that our sins are so severe or ugly that God would never forgive them. This is false, but some punish themselves and refuse to come to the Lord for forgiveness. A bishop is there to assist us in guiding us to forgiveness. He is not capable of forgiving anyone, but his role is as a mentor; to teach that God is merciful and that we must learn to forgive ourselves. Where some carry no burden from sins, others never set their burden down. If one is having problems feeling they are forgiven, that is the time to talk to a bishop.
  19. Rock, I think you misunderstood my point - it was not directed at you personally. I do see individuals tie themselves in knots over things that have no bearing on the truthfulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but they become so confused, they run from Christ and his teachings. I see others they just like to be in chaos. If it is peaceful, they will seek out contention. My point was about all humans rather than just one individual.
  20. I take a rather purist approach on these things. If the prophet presents a revelation and it ends with "....thus saith the Lord" and it is brought before the people for approval to add to scripture, then it is direct revelation. If not, to me, it means that they have sought inspiration and made a decision they, as humans, think is best. I don't really get overly excited about it once the first standard is not met. After living for many decades, I am convinced that people seek out drama for themselves. When there is peace, humans will seek contention. They are more prone to undermine themselves than consistently hold to building a stronger relationship with Jesus Christ and God - it is reflective of their natural state.
  21. It also seems the more conservative groups within Islam are the ones that are growing. In the US we see a push to liberalize many Christian churches - they aren't growing and neither are the conservative ones. I see Christianity being rejected by the people within the US and on the world stage it is quietly persecuted and its trials ignored by the media. My comments are a derail and now let's return to Rory's initial post.
  22. Of course, when you bring up this equality issue then things fall apart for me. When society chooses sacred cows then equality goes out the window in the rush to "protect" the new chosen segment. We don't watch TV anymore and we seldom go to movies either. However, when the occasion that my wife and I do see either one, we are both a little shocked that everything pushes the wonderful gay person in love, falling in love, getting married or married. In old westerns there were always wonderful character actors that added to the script. Seems like today the character actors role has been supplanted by the gay character and pushing that specific social agenda.
  23. In your new belief system, does Satan have a role or is he the same the boogieman underneath a child's bed?
  24. The news confuses me. Like you, I have some experience with really thick, old lumber. That stuff does not burn unless there is a considerable amount of coals created from smaller, more flammable starter material. There must be something that I am missing.
  25. I agree completely. I don't think Pope Francis and his reign is even close to the worst crises in the history of the CC. In truth, it is not even in the top ten, or top 100 I would think. However, the fact that both clerics and academics would go so far as to make a formal, pubic renunciation of the Pope and his teachings is extremely challenging for the Catholic Church.
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