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Storm Rider

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About Storm Rider

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    Places Sun, Moon & Stars In The Sky

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    Leesburg, Virginia

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  1. The Savior did not have much trouble identifying and asking his followers to support their local government while still drawing a definite line between what they did and the gospel he taught. I think I understand your point, but it is a bit too far for me to go. However, I completely agree that I look forward to the day when our Savior will return and govern.
  2. Cal, I haven't read everyone's comments, BUT I don't think religions/churches should participate in politics except within pretty defined areas that affect their beliefs, doctrines, and practices. After those areas, I don't support any churches involving themselves in the area of politics. Of course, I also think it would be better if mass media was completely barred from having ads and editorializing on politics. To me, they have proven themselves incapable of being neutral. I wish - big WISH - that we could have candidates talk directly to the people in small town settings. I realize it is not realistic, but it is a wish. I have long grown uncomfortable with political parties; just give us individuals that tell us what they believe in and let them serve, being totally focused on serving the people, rather than their party affiliation.
  3. Hello Cal, I must admit that I did not read the report, but I don't think that negates my comment....it may negate the report's findings. The phenomena found in the Western world is not easily answerable and I don't think there is one answer. That is all I was saying and if it disagrees with the report, I could list a number of other reports that provide different reasons for the loss of members on multiple continents.
  4. I am not sure your assumption is valid. The decline of European churches has been as dramatic, if not more so, and it has not been because religions have become more political similar to the Moral Majority. As an aside, I support your position that churches should stay out of politics i.e. supporting candidates and electing specific individuals. I think churches should be allowed to comment on moral issues and government actions that directly conflict with beliefs and the rights of churches to exist.
  5. Oh, I get it. You know, I heard one of the wives of Brigham Young ran away and hid in the Salt Lake temple because she was so scared of old Brigham. She hid there so long and then eventually jumped out of the upper most window into the Great Salt Lake and swam to safety in the arms of a passing wagon train returning to the east. I don't know her name, I don't really know when it happened, but I heard it said and therefore it must be true. Yup, got your number. Such juicy hearsay is worth what? And you new folk that pass hearsay off as fact and then become indignant because "long timers" have an ability to see BS and call you on it. I got it. I think we are done.
  6. Attempting to decipher your statement then - it is not the urban south that lost members after the '78 revelation, but "up to 50% in some lower South branches left". Where are these lower south branches? I grew up in Bonifay, Florida, a town of about 3,000 members. There is a ward there now, but it was a branch during the period you are talking about. There was no a member that left. Within this Church district was one branch, now a ward, in Liberty County (about 70 miles away). I heard that they lost a few members for a period of time and one of them stayed away. More than happy to provide the name of the current bishop and you can talk to him. Our district covered from Tallahassee, Florida westward including southern parts of Georgia and Alabama. Upon my return from my mission, I served as a counselor in our branch. I never heard of any branch or ward anywhere in the south that approached your projection of "up to 50% n some lower South branches". These are the kinds of things that folks would talk about - it certainly would not be secret. Can you point to any specific location in the lower South that you are talking about?
  7. Okay, Jake, get off the high horse. Not a single person has stated that no one left the church after the 1978 Revelation. In fact, it is quite the opposite, there were some members that left. However, that is not the issue. The issue is that you stated that up to 50% of members left in the south. That is what everyone has reacted to - it is an exaggeration, a gross exaggeration. Evidence has been provided that refutes that concept. No, baptisms did not magically appear to counter the ghosts that ran out the door as you have suggested. Baptisms did not spike during those years. Just retract the statement; acknowledge that some Mormons left and move on. We have beat this stupid little pig to death. A piece of advice, that a quarter will still not buy you a cup of coffee anywhere in the USA, - being so recalcitrant when clearly wrong does not lend confidence to perceiving you as a neutral participant, but rather one that has an axe to grind. This board is not filled with extremists of either side. Rather it is a group that is quite open minded and more than capable of knowing, learning, and understanding Church history. Give yourself some time and you will come to understand that and trust others.
  8. Jake - you made the claim. It is up to you to either support it with references or retract it. Read the rules. I am not sure you know what a District is. Do you understand how big a territory that covered in NW Florida and southern Alabama? It is not Utah where wards and stakes include just a few blocks. You keep making this accusation, but you don't seem to have any knowledge about what you are discussing. Either provide references or retract your statement. It is not not personal, just the rules of this site.
  9. No sir - I speak from knowledge of the entire district. The revelation occurred in 1978. Are you proposing that members somehow took offense after 1981? Please, just back up your story with facts and I will accept your position. However, since I was there and I was involved in the region, I am not guessing, using hearsay, but actually reality of the area. The south did not see a precipitous drop in membership numbers of the 1978 revelation.
  10. I am speaking from experience of the entire District with included NW Florida and southern Alabama. You talked of the south and you included west Florida. Obviously, what you stated is wrong. I was there in NW Florida - which is west Florida, but I don't know anyone who uses that terminology. It is better to just change your statement to include things you know and not hearsay. It is not anger; just a correction and a willingness to call stories for what they are - gross exaggerations of reality or simply lies.
  11. No, that is not reality - i.e. it is a lie. I lived in the south (NW Florida) from 1970 to 1981 except for two years I served a mission. Our branch did not lose a single member. Our District lost very, very few members for a short time and almost all returned after their hearts were softened and fewer than can be counted on one hand stayed away.
  12. This is the equivalent of asking can God sin? If he is omnipotent, then surely he would be able to choose to be evil. God would never choose to be evil; it is not a matter of choice, but of nature. He is eternally holy and the epitome of Light. No darkness can dwell there and thus choosing sin is never a choice - it is beyond or outside of his nature. This is the same answer for all celestial beings. You are posing a mortal condition and putting it into a celestial existence. The two are not equal and don't exist because the nature of the beings are not comparable. The family unit was chosen because existence is more than self-satisfaction. It goes beyond the self and into the whole. We are not saved alone, but with our families. These concepts of "binary mechanism" - gads, what a demeaning phrase in order to support the non-binary as equal and acceptable. Humans, children of God are made to be so much more than consumers - which is the end product of being for all sexual aberrations and all of the -isms that conflict and destroy the family unit. Spirit bodies - such as those that chose to follow Satan - hunger for the physical. This was the reason that asked to enter into the herd of Swine after being cast out of the young man's body by the Savior. Gender is an eternal part of each child of God. There is no concept of anything else in the eternities; there is never a question of am I male or am I female. Such conditions only exist only in a fallen world and such philosophies only exist in the mind of Satan who works to deceive all humanity. The assumption is not one that I would make. I assume that all, even intelligences, had gender as a part of their identity.
  13. My point was the exceptional situation - a man with a beard demanding to be called Madam and other employees are fired because they refused to do so - versus the more normal situation - an individual in a dress/pants suit, feminine clothing that wants to be known as Trixie. Who should be fired? Certainly not Trixie or Tom, as long as they are productive in their work, but not for their fetish/chosen gender identity, etc. The individual with a beard is just a sideshow and should probably be fired for creating a disturbance in the workplace. In a small family business, I can see far more leeway given to who they choose to employ and who they do not. The business is far more closely associated with their own identity. If they want to hire only Muslims, then fine. If that also means they will not tolerate a gay person, then I also think it is fine.
  14. Then there is the bearded man that demands that others address him as "Madam" because of his feelings. What is strange is that in England a doctor was fired for refusing to address the fellow as such. Stupidity is all well and good for humans, but there is a line of the absurd that just does not need to be crossed. If individuals want to run a carnival attraction, then by all means join the carnival. If not, then stop acting the role of an jack*** and act in a socially acceptable manner. That appears to be the question - should a society have norms? Should a society have rules? Should a society have cohesion among its members? Should a society have norms at all?
  15. If there is a disagreement between us, it is measured i degrees. Are LDS generally perceived as happy people? I think the consensus is yes. However, I would never say they are the happiest people on the earth. First, I don't know all the people on the earth. Second, the definition of what happy is and looks like that is universal is highly subjective.
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