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About Vanguard

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    Member: Moves Upon the Waters
  • Birthday 11/28/1965

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  1. It doesn't really matter to me. Academically though, it would seem Gethsemane would be the far greater challenge. As important and horrific as the cross was I don't think the suffering sets him apart as does the garden. No one has ever nor is capable of experiencing the pain suffered in Gethsemane. The cross' agony is pedestrian in comparison and in light of the many other men & women who have suffered as horrible - if not more so - a mortal death in this temporality.
  2. Come on, HJW. The Church in this instance didn't take away any option you didn't already consent to having taken away. You're moving the goalposts to buttress your argument. If there were not a disclaimer on the machine then your argument would have cause. That is, unless you then want to argue about the placement of the disclaimer and whether it should be in neon lights. Good grief...
  3. Agreed for the most part though we should not conflate those things that are "seemingly unclear" as necessarily being "wrong".
  4. I didn't suggest it were doctrine or I wouldn't have said "stretch". What do you think of ideas such as mine that speculate on possibilities although there may have been nothing authoritatively said about them yet? Because nothing has thus far been said does that in your mind preclude the possibility of it being true? Is your position that all must be revealed now? I do agree, however, that past pronouncements could have been much clearer in both detail and whether s/he were speaking of revealed doctrine. On this issue it doesn't bother me so much though. It's also true that Joseph could have "gotten ahead" of himself when he spoke of these things.
  5. How much of a stretch is it to believe the earth underwent a spiritual transformation after eons of development - a transformation that represented the final preparation for receiving spiritual mankind after eons of his own development? Much as Calm has suggested the beginning of "covenant man[kind]" (the story of Adam & Eve) why couldn't we view a covenant earth in this way? Don't we already believe the earth has a spiritual essence about it?
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