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CV75

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About CV75

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    Creates Man & Woman

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  1. Curious about cafeteria doctrines

    Are you suggesting he's standing alone in the "cafeteria" line? To maintain a true principle is to profess and act on it, right?
  2. Curious about cafeteria doctrines

    ...now public profession would be crossing the line from belief into behavior!
  3. Curious about cafeteria doctrines

    I’m not sure there is any expectation from our leaders for uniformity of belief. Personally, I think there is tremendous latitude in that regard, as the only good-faith expectation I am aware of is, if you want a temple recommend or keep it simply answer a dozen or so questions right. What you are describing doesn’t sound like cafeteria Mormonism (practice, obedience, etc.) to me, and kind of ignores the Elder Nelson's message, which I think has more to do with the more common understanding of the term. Misappropriation also emphasizes all the ways we differ in our individual mediocrity, drawing attention away from the uniting strength to be found in our diversity. At worst, it covers up a call to pressure the Church to loosen up her policies, standards and doctrines.
  4. Curious about cafeteria doctrines

    That's a wonderful opinion, but I think it's a misappropriation of the term, at least according to Elder Nelson's reference to "cafeteria obedience." Surely you're not condemning all 16M members to the spirit of "cafeteria obedience", or saying "cafeteria obedience" as Elder Nelson describes it wouldn't be a problem. Rather than 16M churches of "cafeteria obedience", I believe in the unity of the faith, in Zion being of one heart and mind (rooted in the fundamental principles of our religion), and progress -- not perpetually doing our own wayward things.
  5. A Prophet of God

    That is certainly something to look forward to! But I'm also seeing that the "quorum of men" -- another secular spin, unintentional I'm sure -- can and do tell us God's will, that we can receive confirmation for ourselves, and that our common consent formalizes that covenant relationship. I think the difference over the years is only a matter of communication style on one hand and a greater expectation upon the members of body of Christ. The Prophet still has and delegates the keys and serves a presiding function over the councils.
  6. A Prophet of God

    i understand... I see revelation as a process as well as an event or a product. Common consent depends entirely on faith and on what we have accepted as a product of that faith. When we express our common consent, we are expressing our faith and acceptance of the evidence upon which it is based. "Assumption" is a form of faith or hope, I suppose (but again a more secularized term). For example, we accept Section 107 as revelation, and from what we've seen and personally experienced, the Church abides by it. The decision-making process in councils is as much revelatory (there are other sections about that) as it is procedural (a president approving the decisions of a quorum, councils presiding over councils, etc.). I see this as an effective check-and-balance for the earthly kingdom.
  7. Curious about cafeteria doctrines

    I think this reflects what I take to be a more informed understanding of what it is intended to mean: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/face-the-future-with-faith?lang=eng "Teach of faith to keep all the commandments of God, knowing that they are given to bless His children and bring them joy.4 Warn them that they will encounter people who pick which commandments they will keep and ignore others that they choose to break. I call this the cafeteria approach to obedience. This practice of picking and choosing will not work. It will lead to misery. To prepare to meet God, one keeps all of His commandments. It takes faith to obey them, and keeping His commandments will strengthen that faith." We can soften the intended meaning, but it is more truthful -- and a more accurate reflection of our intended relationship with God -- to appeal to faith, repentance and grace than to suppose the Lord expects us to perpetually fall further and further behind.
  8. A Prophet of God

    By Moses and D&C 107 I meant the principle of delegation in the Lord’s operation of His kingdom on earth through prophets (and their delegates) … and how decisions, based on revelation, can and often does come by way of properly-presided councils. These principles are as real as the scriptures you provided. In some ways they are ancient (Moses, the quorum of three presidents) and a product of continuing revelation, restoration, and line-upon-line advancement. Overarching this is, as long as all things are done by common consent by prayer and faith, there is no problem for “we as members.” I see the use of the phrase “committee approved announcements” as a secular spin on that which is described in D&C 107. But the spirit and letter of D&C 107 is what we commonly consent to (after all, it is our canon).
  9. Curious about cafeteria doctrines

    I don't think that is what "cafeteria" refers to; rather it was originally meant to convey the uninspired and even prideful and rebellious picking and choosing of which commandments and covenants to keep, or whom to sustain based on similar attitudes, and not about sorting through priorities and interests while doing the best one can to keep the commandments and covenants. I think it has been misappropriated in a couple of these threads.
  10. A Prophet of God

    What you describe is according to D&C 107. Where / when would the expectation of a PPI have even come up?
  11. A Prophet of God

    See D&C 107.
  12. A Prophet of God

    Not so: https://www.lds.org/topics/revelation?lang=eng
  13. A Prophet of God

    Think "Moses." And also the D&C 107 passages on decisions (picked out of verses 27-83), wherein any authorized council is "entitled to the same blessings which the decisions of a quorum of three presidents were anciently."
  14. A Prophet of God

    That is not how a sheep or goat is determined.
  15. A Prophet of God

    When I joined (1975) I appreciated the idea of God speaking through a modern Prophet also, but I also recall a heavy emphasis on delegation (as in Moses as a prophet delegating to other judges) at the time. Church doctrine and policy can both originate from revelation. Revelation to the President of the Church operates both individually and collectively through his councils. He (and his delegates) declares both doctrine and policy, which do not always have to be new. When the President of the Church cannot act, his counselors and the Twelve pick up the slack. When the he delegates keys to others, they may receive revelation and act within the scope of their delegation. So by virtue of delegation, the President of the Church declares lots of revelations every moment of the day, which renders the Church no less personally directed by the Lord.
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