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CV75

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About CV75

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  1. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    Now that's a wonderful example of biased rhetoric which turns around and abuses the concept you said you agree with. As demonstrated in our latest exchange above, you are the one "flipping" direction. I would suggest this is an emotional reaction to facing the problems posed by your personally subjective bias and rhetoric. You seem to believe in spheres of truth but cannot manage them. One key to managing them is realizing they needn't be reconciled at all, but simply used where they are best suited. At some point there well could be a unifying or overarching sphere of truth for them, but first some dexterity with them individually must be mastered. For example, the Book of Mormon is not designed to lead to wealth or scientific discovery, but the spiritual power gained by abiding its precepts may facilitate such (it so much as says this in several places). Business and science are not designed to lead to spiritual enlightenment, but they can facilitate an environment where someone can hear the word with attention and open mindedness. It all depends on the individual's treatment of these things according to his personal, subjective experience.
  2. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    Ha-ha, I thought it was something you said awhile back!
  3. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    That’s very nice, and no matter how one is sold over the other, fundamentally each is filtered through a subjective personal (and since you added "biased," biased) experience. Enjoy!
  4. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    I’ve never known anyone to say they got an answer, or want an answer, about the historicity of the Book of Mormon from God / through prayer. However, I think your description in the 2nd paragraph covers pretty much what I’ve been describing as to how most members of the Church operate. Science and scholarship are carried out exclusively by people having personal experiences through the discipline of science and scholarship. It is all they have, and they use their preferred tools accordingly.
  5. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    It also puts us all on the same playing field when dealing with problems such as those brought up in the OP. Once you point out that personal, subjective experience is all there is and all we have --"your own included!" -- argument ("here's how you see it, stupid!") is replaced with invitation ("here's how I see it, friend!") and the world is a better place.
  6. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    As i said, it is typically not very conscious or verbalized, but if you asked a fellow ward member if he could pray to know the names of missing Chinese Emperors, he would probably chuckle or look at you like you had two heads, depending on how well you know each other. Or if you asked him which of the two is a history book, or mainly a history book, The Book of Mormon or "Una Breve Relación de la Destrucción de las Indias", he he could only answer according to his personal, subjective experience, but would most likely identify the latter. He will likely not articulate that he is answering from his personal subjective religious experience of historicity, but he will likely say that because he knows the book is what it says it is, the history it does contain is accurate. People seem to sense the spheres of operation. Personally I've heard the terms folk, religious, ethno-, secular, official (and other qualifiers describing the type of) history forever, within and outside of conversations about the Church. Much of language is not written or spoken, but felt and conveyed through other means and symbols, some very "innate" or "organic." I think the consideration of "personal subjective religious experience historicity" is intended to be more of help to you in dealing with those who believe the Book of Mormon to contain some elements of history than it is to be of help to them in dealing with the question of praying about its historicity.
  7. CV75

    Evolution

    I sometimes conceptualize The Fall as the point where the physical laws as we understand them took over the terrestrial laws that were in operation for the paradisaical world until Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit. In other words, the Edenic creation was destroyed and everything had to be organized from scratch (via the bang bang or rival alternative theory) over billions of years as our scientists observe. Some 6,000 years ago Adam and Eve, the only survivors of the Fall, having been "taken up" until a world was suitable for their habitation as covenant-bearers, returned to the scene. The rest is our religious history on a 7,000 year timeline without insult or injury to the theories of evolution.
  8. CV75

    Evolution

    I think ”teaching” is a bit of a stretch 😊 But from the scripture references I provided do you have a question? The 1828 Webster Dictionary defines “continuance” in a number of ways that might help understand these passages: 1. A holding on or remaining in a particular state [in this case, temporal, or relating to the measurement or reckoning of time], or in a course or series [the seven seals]. Applied to time, duration; a state of lasting [in this case, 7,000 years]. 5. Progression of time [which is a human construct, in this case one constructed by God and given to Adam]. 6. In law, the deferring of a suit, or the giving of a day for the parties to a suit to appear. After issue or demurrer joined, as well as in some of the previous stages of proceeding, a day is continually given, and entered upon record, for the parties to appear on from time to time [in this case, the 7,000 years is for our probation preparatory to our final judgement]. 8. Continuity; resistance to a separation of parts; a holding together [in this case, the binding covenants].
  9. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    I think the paradigm is quite common, but is more intuitive and visceral than is verbally/orally articulated. After all, people have lives and actually live their religion! Not to pick on anyone, but can you point out on this thread some replies indicating the two spheres are considered as one and the same?
  10. CV75

    Evolution

    D&C 77:6 has to do with the temporal existence of the earth in relation to the covenant, which began to be kept about 6,000 years ago, when men began to call upon the name of the Lord (Moses 6:5, 46). The 7,000 of its continuance has to do with its temporal existence, or when mankind began to reckon according to the prophecies (Abraham 5:13; similarly, we now reckon time from the birth of Christ).
  11. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    That’s been understood all along, but doesn’t explain why you keep asking the same question, which is what I asked about. Our faith recognizes that the pursuit of knowledge, whatever kind and through whatever means, is fundamentally a matter of exercising personal agency. So of course everyone won’t agree on every precept no matter how well justified or rationalized it is by any given paradigm and standard, and everyone has the answer they choose to live with, even scholars and scientists.
  12. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    Well, that is part an parcel of being "another crazy thread..." The question from here, after the philosophical points were acknowledged: Posted 19 hours ago “I’m still trying to get a answer about whether prayer is a tool that can be used to evaluate the historicity of a narrative like the BoM” ANSWER(S) consistent with the two-spheres-of-truth idea: Yes, no, depends; even the most rigorously disciplined evaluation remains subjective; people can accept the Book of Mormon as historical enough for them after praying about what it does promise to answer; people can pray about its historicity and other things it doesn’t promise to answer (with varying results); scholars can apply their trade in a religiously supportive context, recognizing that nothing in scholarship is final; some are good at it and some are not; people can comfortably work with both prayer for some things and the scientific method for others, and successfully coordinate the findings, and some people cannot.
  13. CV75

    Another Crazy Thread From Cdowis

    Then why do you keep asking the same question?
  14. CV75

    Silk in Ancient MesoAmerica

    I once read a (fairly controversial) book* about that, but I think it is certainly plausible. *1421: The Year China Discovered America by Gavin Menzies
  15. CV75

    Silk in Ancient MesoAmerica

    I assume that all the time and still "silk" is good for a working purposes.
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