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CV75

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About CV75

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    Creates Man & Woman

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  1. Spiritual hubris

    I think counseling is a three-way process (between God and the people involved and between the people) whereas inspiration is one-way (God to the recipient if the recipient isn’t asking for it) or two-way (if the recipient asks for it). I don’t think the counsel I’m describing bears bad fruit, but it is possible that good counsel can be rationalized in a way to bear bad fruit or can get misapplied to bear bad fruit. I don’t think I’ve had the experience that inspiration or advice attributed to God, whether I was giving it or receiving it, has ever borne bad fruit. If such were to happen, I would use it as a learning experience or otherwise repent. A baseball bat and a head certainly connect at some point, but does the skull or the brain know exactly when contact is made, or damage is done, or they start to hurt or thinking is affected?
  2. Spiritual hubris

    The counsel is whatever comes to me, the other person(s) and God as a result of communing together. So, I’m not sure what “wrong” would look like. God accepts our best efforts in the "triumvirate" and watches over the lesser two so things will work out in His timing and with His grace. As I tried to explain, I don’t receive inspiration “for” someone in the counseling process; it simply doesn’t work that way. Now parents may receive inspiration for their children and share it, or a leader may receive inspiration for someone within the scope of his stewardship, but these are not counseling situations. Yes, the scripture is about what we do individually vis-à-vis “every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God,” no matter how we hear it, as the mechanisms and media for transmission and relay from His mouth are varied and sundry. I think this might get to the question of whether external forces act upon our brains and bodies to yield a personal experience. While we can accept that they do (an external blow to the head hurts and can affect thinking), ultimately all such mortal experience is also personal and requires the neurological processes of our brain to have it. Believing in a spirit (or not) doesn’t change that. Where LDS believe that connected spirit and element constitute the person (the soul), there is no telling where one begins and the other ends, or which is contributing what to the person’s experience.
  3. Spiritual hubris

    Jesus does not want blind faith placed in Him, either (John 7:16-18). There's an interesting alignment described in D&C 84:36-57 ("For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me; And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father"). We begin this alignment when we are baptized and receive the laying on of hands by those with authority; that is how we advance in our relationship with Christ and the Father, with the Holy Ghost facilitating this progress as we receive Him. The next verses in 43-48 show where this leads, and the confidence the Lord has in those seeking counsel, no matter how much He feels they need to repent: "And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life. For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God. For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ. And the Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world; and the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit. And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father. And the Father teacheth him of the covenant..."
  4. Spiritual hubris

    I see advice and counsel as two different things, with counsel arising from a synergistic process that begins with prayer. I think the Lord's pattern is to invite people to experiment and try things that He has proven to Himself to be true, and to thus find out for themselves (John 7:16-18). My post was about counsel. I've been around long enough to be very careful about giving advice, and generally avoid it! Instruction, teaching, explaining and witnessing are yet other ways to minister to the spiritual needs of others, and each involves slightly different processes. In a formal sit-down they should all acknowledge the Lord's will above all else and begin with prayer. Some can seem more like counseling, or carried out in a manner more similar to counseling than others, and any of these can complement counseling.
  5. Spiritual hubris

    I have never used spiritual feelings to try to influence another person; Moral and ethical counseling does not work that way, and I would put any such attempt to do so into the realm of “unrighteous dominion.” 2 Nephi 33:1 says, “when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men.” That is only half the communication; those who are counseled must also receive it into their hearts by the power of the Holy Ghost. Both parties must yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and become as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father (Mosiah 3:19). When I counsel, I don't make it about me (what I want, what others think, of me, my insecurities, my comfort level, self-confidence, etc.). It's about seeking the Lord's will concerning what I should say or do to discern and serve the other person's need, and encouraging or teaching them to do the same for themselves. I often say a silent prayer that the Spirit will reveal to them what they need to know and do. Discoveries come, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:20).
  6. Resurrection Question

    I'm thinking it is just one single particle that is called forth when "the the angel who holds the keys of the resurrection shall sound his trumpet," and not a molecule or the former molecules comprising our bodies at all. Alma 11 speaks of the perfect form, the perfect frame, and the proper frame. In Alma 40 the term proper and perfect frame is used, and in Alma 41, proper order and natural frame. Where living things are organized spiritually before naturally or physically (Moses 3:5), these terms in reference to the resurrection seem to point to the restoration of the fundamental principle (i.e. form, frame, order) to do its thing in bringing element and spirit together. I don't think the elements that are brought together in the resurrection necessarily need to be from this planet. The bodies quickened according to different glories may derive their elements from different places, which like the stones that the brother of Jared asked to be quickened by the Lord, tolerate the respective glories. It is said that beings partook of the elements of this world in order to produce Adam in his terrestrial (paradisaical) condition.
  7. Resurrection Question

    Joseph Smith referred to the “fundamental principle belonging to a human system” and “the fundamental parts thereof” which are uniquely ours (History of the Church, 5:339). Brigham Young also referred to “the peculiar fundamental particles that organized our bodies here… [and that] will be brought together again in the twinkling of an eye, and our spirits will take possession of them.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.372). Joseph Fielding Smith called them “essential particles” that cannot be destroyed no matter how finely disintegrated the components of the mortal body become (Answers to Gospel Questions, 2:100) . So who knows what that is. Perhaps this principle is a formula, that gets encoded in the particle that is connected to our spirit (D&C 93:33), which drives the mortal life force and the assembly of elements into living bodies according to the eternal information, or our spirits, found in heaven. The books in heaven would contain the formula which is transmitted and expressed in mortality through this particle that cannot be destroyed. In the resurrection, this single fundamental particle is quickened by the spirit that possesses it and thus reassembles the elements comprising our physical bodies according to the corresponding glory.
  8. Questions lead to answers; unsatisfactory answers lead to either more questions or conclusions based on the available information. Doubt is not a conclusion, but a feeling. I'm not sure how this would nurture doubt any more than an unsatisfactory answer (some would find such an answer satisfactory).
  9. I don't see that as tightly controlling the narrative and what the members know (I find the term "average member" dehumanizing and feel there is no such thing anyway) . I see the canonical version of the First Vision as offering the clearest common starting point (the same page), recognizing our agency to branch out from there at our own pace and interest. I don't think his comment about about not studying further is a criticism; he states it as a fact of human nature and that some people, notably scholars, do study and find what's out there to be found. I think he is showing, in line with Elder Oaks' remarks, that some can use that interest to leverage doubts instead of good questions warranting further exploration and study.
  10. Almost 40 years ago I saw her across the dance floor as though a spotlight was shining on her and I thought we would be married someday. But I quickly ejected that idle thought since I was heading to grad school in a few weeks and would not get back that way again. But a mutual friend happened to introduce us near the end of the evening and the rest is history. We were engaged before I left and we were married after my first semester.
  11. I will hazard a guess that Elder Snow is not speaking specifically of the First Vision accounts. Also, Elder Ballard is speaking in the present tense 4 years after Elder Snow's comment. Also, not being open is not necessarily the same as hiding.
  12. Resurrection Question

    Assuming that by “righteous” you mean “saint” (I see a difference), the scriptures teach that many saints appeared unto many (not all) and ministered unto them. Matthew 27 mentions they went to the “holy city” (Jerusalem) to do this, which might be construed to be the temple. Saint to me means both “holy… set apart… free from blemish” and “those who by baptism have entered into the Christian covenant” (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/saint?lang=eng). That could include those of prior dispensations to Christ’s. Many saints for example have not died, but are translated with the City of Enoch (Zion). I think the same reasoning as to why many (some) and not all LDS are given certain callings applies to why many (some) and not all the saints were resurrected at the rising of Christ. It was for the purpose of ministering a certain witness or proclamation of the Lord’s victory over death to the living who were willing to receive it.
  13. Resurrection Question

    The scripture do not say, "all the righteous," they say, "many saints." See Matthew 27:52, 2 Nephi 23:11 (Helaman 14;25).
  14. Emotional healing and Spirit World

    I think anything we are not responsible or accountable for will be immediately healed. I would think the rest would depend on how we respond to that healing and the opportunities extended us to change those things we are accountable and responsible for.
  15. CH1 Now online for all membership

    The introduction to Handbook 2 does explain that it is for the members of ward and stake councils to learn and carry out their duties. This covers a lot of people who are tasked with developing their gifts of discernment, and I think it is their responsibility to teach the members on handling sensitive, private and personal temporal and moral issues. Or having a lesson on the topic. Likewise, it is the members' individual responsibility to seek answers as guided by the Spirit., including reaching out to brothers and sisters whom they trust and sustain, when faced with a problem. A functional faith community facilitates this in that the Lord (He is in the details of our lives) guides the ministers to those who need them and the members to those who can help them. Mass media is not necessarily the best way to do this, but the structures we have in place for the saints to get together. I think the new approach to visiting teaching is a good example.
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