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california boy

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About california boy

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    Looks for truth over dogma

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    I like to listen to others that share different beliefs than me. I try to respect those differences, but will also challenge those beliefs to sort out truth from dogma. I feel that people have often let religious dogma overshadow the basic message of Christ. I adhere to simple truths. Love God, love others, let God judge and worry about my own faults.

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  1. Thanks for the clarification. As with any organization, there are bound to be those that disagree. Anyone who reads more into it than that is IMO not really being fair in judging these organizations harshly.
  2. Could you link where you are getting this impression that those organizations are condemning the acceptance of the money from the Mormon church? I looked on Affirmations web site and saw nothing that expresses what you are implying. And to be clear, are you accusing the organizations themselves or a few individuals within the organization? Because some are very quick to judge these organizations as a whole based on your comments. If it is a few individuals within those organizations rather than the organization themselves, that condemnation would not be justified in my opinion.
  3. The church's generous donation is still on the front page of their web site.
  4. Fair enough. And I didn't say anything until he started to sway other posters to his view of what Carol Lynn Pearson stood for and taught. That is when I felt like I should nail him down to exactly what his claim was. I can't argue with what he says he heard. But I can argue that this is something that Carol Lynn Pearson taught on a regular basis. As I pointed out, she has certainly written enough books and plays about this subject to get a pretty good idea how she personally feels about this issue. I felt like someone needed to be real clear that what USU78 was claiming is not an established fact.
  5. Except we did find written policies addressing the church practice at the time. People could decide for themselves based on the evidence presented. There was a whole thread talking about the documentation of this issue. And I certainly was not alone in making that claim. We have the testimony of many other gay men who received similar counsel. If you would like I would even be glad to revisit this subject in a thread that is relevant on this subject if you want to start one. One easy thing I could probably do is post something on the Advocate.org website, the same organization that the church donated the money to and see what kind of response I get. If you want to start another thread on this issue, I would be more than happy to provide further documentation on this issue.
  6. So it is a baseless accusation. She certainly has written enough and published enough on this subject that if she had actually said anything close to what you wrote, you would have been able to answer the CFR. Good to know. I am not asking for names. That is a red herring. If I was to make the statement and claim it as fact that President Nelson was gay and was having an affair, but I can't reveal who told me, you would go nuts. And rightly so. Your accusations against Carol Lynn Pe4son deserve to be proven or withdrawn. You know the rules. Answer the CFR or WITHDRAW the accusation. CFR's are not designed to shut down anyone. They are designed to do exactly this. Prove claims that are made or call them what thy are, unsubstantiated accusations. It is especially important when someone makes false statements against an individual.
  7. Sorry, but I think you are grossly distorting what Carol Lynn Person has said. So CFR your claims. Let us be able to look at exactly what she has said for you to make such an accusation and decide for ourselves what exactly she has done rather than just hearing your accusations that I think are quite unfair and distorted. Carol Lynn Pearson was in my stake for many years. i am quite familiar with a lot of the work she has done to bring greater understanding towards the LGBT community. I gave my father her book "Circle the Wagons" which he read. It was one of the big factors that changed his attitude toward me after not having much to do with me since he found out I was gay for 13 years. So I am VERY interested in seeing your proof for your accusations.
  8. Thanks. It seems we have both arrived at an agreement coming from two different directions.
  9. This helps clarify what you were talking about. Thanks. But I think many have thrown out religion all together. Like you, I don't think they are going around to each congregation trying to find something that more fits their historical views. Like I said perviously, I don't think they see value for them in any religion. I am curious what you would say to someone in their position that would convince them that they should look more closely into religion. I agree San Francisco has some unique common denominators. I don't have a good perspective on what is going on in the rest of the country.
  10. I would say. by your answer, religion and specifically the Mormon Church works for you. You trust the church leaders and believe in the message. Good for you. I think there will always be a certain percentage that seek organized religion and find value in it. But what we are seeing, and the polls are showing, is an increase in those who don't trust religious leaders, their claims of knowing the will of God and don't believe in the stories that religion has relied on. The scriptures are just not looking like something an all knowing God would inspire men to write. This isn't just a Mormon problem, this is a religion problem. If you don't believe in these fundamental principles, then what does religion have to offer those kind of people? Not sure there is an easy answer. To get back to the OP, people are not seeing a reason to hop into a boat to take them somewhere just because it seems safer. When they evaluate the "peeling paint and dents in the boat", where the boat is headed may no longer be important.
  11. I guess I wasn't very clear in what I was writing. I didn't say conservative religions were failing, I meant all religions failing. Here is a question to seriously ponder. What does religion actually have to offer? Can people go to find eternal truths that can be trusted when the see so much in religion that they can't trust? For many it is a belief system lived that came from a time when knowledge about so much of this stuff was unknown. Now it is known, and it doesn't fit the stories. A world wide flood? Adam and Eve story? Age of the earth? No death until the last 6000 years? What I am saying is, if you can't trust the message or those leading churches, then what does religion have to offer? So I live in San Francisco. The city is filled with millenniums. It is a very young aged city. And this is what I see. You are right. They don't seem to be involved in any organizations. But I think that is also not surprising. People used to join organizations to meet others and to connect. Now, that is really not necessary. You can stay. connected with a much broader group electronically. What I do see is the restaurants packed every night. And as I look across the room, customers are almost all in their 20's and 30's. I have a downstairs neighbor who fits this age group. He goes surfing almost every morning with a bunch of his friends, rushes home and then works long hours. He and his friends also travel, all the time. My. kids are the same. They run marathons and course challenge events regularly. They travel and go out to eat with their friends, a lot. If I want to know the latest hot place to eat, I ask them. What they are doing is changing sitting in meetings listening to someone else tell them how to live their lives for actually living their lives. Of course there is a wide spectrum in what I have described. Some just simply never leave the house. And there are still some who are very connected with religion. They ignore the problems and enjoy the uplifting experience. When the meetings get boring, they just pull out their iPad.
  12. I see some of this as well. I think people want something in their life that they feel passionate about. Something bigger than themselves. But for many, religion has made it difficult to grab on to and believe in. There are just too many claims made by religion that are easy to fact check and turn out to probably not be true. Some see religion is a place for people to gather together and for strong relationships with like-minded people. Others find religion divisive and political. The ones that like the community gravitate to it. The ones that find it divisive and even contentious leave it. It is important to remember that not EVEYONE is leaving religion. But those that are leave it for very concrete reasons. Most of all, religion has lost it's trust. If you really listen to them and let them open up on why they feel the way they do about religion, then you can often see that it is not just video games distracting them.
  13. Neve mind. It is probably better I don't comment. We have continual threads on this topic and continual complaints about your negativity towards other posters. Please rethink your approach.
  14. Actually I have moved on. I no longer respond to SMAC's post once he made it perfectly clear what he thinks of me and gay people in general. I wish him well.
  15. This is the hill SMAC is willing to die on. SMAC thinks the October policy comes straight from God and is the best policy the church could ever have towards gay families. Labeling gay couples as apostates doesn't phase him in the least. He just wants to have harmony in the home and not baptizing children under 18 is the very best God can do. Sorry you are gay, but rules are rules. At some point, don't we just have to move on? Does anyone really believe they can say something to SMAC to soften him on this issue?
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