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california boy

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About california boy

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    Looks for truth over dogma

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    I like to listen to others that share different beliefs than me. I try to respect those differences, but will also challenge those beliefs to sort out truth from dogma. I feel that people have often let religious dogma overshadow the basic message of Christ. I adhere to simple truths. Love God, love others, let God judge and worry about my own faults.

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  1. I think you made my point. We can't just call them wicked. We don't know their intents. While certainly what they did was horrific, their belief of whether they sincerely thought they were doing the will of God is impossible to know for sure. It is just as easy to think they honestly thought they were doing the will of God as it is to believe they had evil motives. When people honestly believe they are following the will of God, they do all kinds of things that seem contrary to what Christ taught.
  2. I don't disagree with you for the most part. But context is important to. Remember church leaders dealt with a whole slew of violating commandments by killing. The church doesn't do that any longer. Today, it is more just excommunication as the harshest punishment. So were Jewish leaders "evil" for dishing out the harshest punishment to those who broke the commandments and publicly disagreed with church leaders when they sincerely thought they were protecting the church and following the will of God? Don't current church leaders exercise the harshest punishment against those that speak out against church leaders today? You certainly wouldn't label them wicked. So what is the difference?
  3. Several of you are calling the leaders of the church during the time of Christ as being wicked. But is that fair? Weren't they doing their very best to protect the Church from this guy that was throwing out the Laws of Moses and countering what, at the time, was the will of God? They were clearly concerned that this cult Christ was leading was also leading others to apostasy. The question really is, were the Jewish leaders really wicked? Or were they simply trying their best to figure out what God wanted them to do. They weren't even willing to do the killing. They talked the Romans into doing their dirty work.
  4. I completely agree with you that discrimination laws should be equally pursued. I know he has made this claim, but has he ever provided any documentation to refusing to bake a cake for Halloween, bachelor parties, divorce, cakes with alcohol in the ingredients, and cakes with atheist messages prior to his discriminating against gay couples. Or is this just a CYA move. Can you show any documentation??? Because we do have documentation that Mr Phillips agreed to make a wedding cake for two dogs despite his claim of the importance of the sanctity of marriage. See my documentation provided to Calm above on these two bakeries that are involved in these discrimination lawsuits. Who said anything about denying free speech? I think all agree that anyone is free to say anything they want. It doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for what they say. Take for example this wonderful mayor who thinks the solution to the "gay problem" is to kill them. No one is saying he can't make such statements, but there certainly can be consequences for an elected official promoting such a policy.Do Since you want to defend these "christians", do you really think these stands to discriminate is really promoting the principles that Christ taught? Do you honestly think people are drawn to Christianity when they hear these 'christians" refusals to serve the gay community? Because THAT was my point.
  5. I wouldn't ever refuse service to them or anyone else because of their beliefs if that is what you mean. It doesn't mean I don't find it offensive when these "christians" use the name of Christ to promote discrimination.
  6. Article in the Huffington Post Sweetcakes Bakery in Oregon agreed to bake a cake for A Divorce Party Cloning Human Stem Cell Party Pagan Solstice Party A. party for a woman who had multiple children out of wedlock Article from the Huffington Post Masterpiece Bakery of Colorado agreed to make a cake for celebrating two dogs getting married. Yeah that isn't mocking the sanctity of marriage between only a man and a woman. These are the exact two bakeries that are involved in these discrimination lawsuits. Evidently no problem with pagan worship or having children out of wedlock or divorce or marrying two dogs. But a gay wedding. Well, we just don't do those.
  7. Pig of an AG? For enforcing the laws of the State of Washington? The very job he was elected to do? And these "christians" who believe Christ was big on discriminating against sinners. Have they even read their Bibles where Christ specifically talked about the then shunned group in telling us exactly how to treat those differently than us in the story of the Good Samaritan? Do they even understand exactly why the priest and Levite refused to help, and why Christ used the Samaritan as the one that offered the help? Discrimination is ugly and this country has long ago decided it is not something that Americans want to embrace. Religion, being used as a weapon to discriminate is not going to end well unless the goal of religion is to push decent people who believe in treating everyone with respect and dignity away from religion. When the only sin these 'christians" are unwilling to bake a cake for or make a flower arrangement is SSM, then the sincerity of their "religious beliefs" looses all credibility. Where are these "christians" refusing to bake a cake for the unwed mother or the divorce celebration or bachelor parties where strippers entertain or a hundred other sinful events their cakes may be eaten at. Why aren't these "christians" going through a little interview process to see exactly who is eating their products and what possible event it might be used in. Please. IMO, most people look at this as shear discrimination against the LGBT community because they seem to be the only targeted group. Those of you who rally around these religious excuses for discriminating against the LGBT community celebrating a legal marriage really think this is going to help attract more people to your message? Do you really think calling the Attorney General of Washington State a pig for enforcing the law to not discriminate is going to win over followers? Do you really want discrimination tied directly to Christ and what He stands for? I personally am outraged that anyone is using Christ as a weapon to perpetuate discrimination. Bake the cake. Show kindness to all who enter your store. If you want to use your business to preach your beliefs, then find, hand out bibles or brochures with each and everything you sell. Or put some scripture on the bottom of your drinking cups. But discriminate as a way to bring people to Christ? Don't think that is going to work out well.
  8. Jeffery Holland quoted Ezra Taft Benson and said about the Book of Mormon. https://www.lds.org/new-era/1995/06/true-or-false?lang=eng President Ezra Taft Benson said Jeffery R. Holland said in response: and
  9. So you feel the church is being attacked and discriminated against for attacking and discriminating against the LGBT community. I think you are probably right.
  10. Thanks. I appreciate you sharing your perspective.
  11. I think comparing what one city does with the circumstances in another city, while may be helpful, often does not provide any magic cure. For example, what SLC does may not work in San Francisco. It snows in Utah and is freezing cold at night. Of course the homeless what shelters. That isn't the case in San Francisco. Part of San Francisco's problem is good weather year round. Drugs are definitely part of the problem. But some people really freak out when San Francisco proposes drug programs. A big part of the homeless problem is the mentally ill. Since Regan closed down the mental hospitals in California when he was govenrnor, it put them out on the street, and I believe actually started this whole homeless lifestyle. Before that there were very few homeless, camping on the streets. In the end, it is a complexed issue that I have yet to see any simple solutions to. Every mayor in the past decade has run on platforms of addressing the homeless issuee including the current on. San Francisco would like nothing more than to have this problem completely disappear. Being a more liberal city has little to do with the will to solve this problem. Prrobably enough of. a derail, but thanks for your thoughts.
  12. That was almost 2 decades ago. That was 7 years before the iphone was invented. Long before apps and internet was widely used. Social media wasn't even thought of. 20 years ago, gay relationships were still illegal and could land you in jail for even dancing with someone of the same sex. To say that gays were marganialized is an understateent. Even though they were Americans, they had no civil rights back then. Everything was underground and illegal. If you want to assert this was going on 19 years ago, ok. But do you see the total lack of context in todays world?
  13. I am interested in this whole born into the gospel due topremortal worthiness. What do you think someone did in the premortal life to be worthy to be born into a home of a crackhead mother and criminal father?
  14. I don't think anyone would claim that gays don't have sex. But once again, data as old as you are quoting is so out of date, that in and of itself becomes a joke. Gays don't cruise parks or bathrooms. They use an app and the internet just like the straight people. I know this is a completely different issue. And not sure why you brought it up in this thread. And I think you have overexagerated the homeless problem at least in San Francisco. I will tell you what has already been done in San Francisco at least. It is already against the law to even sit on the sidewalks. It is illegal to set up a tent on the sidewalks. The Department of Public Works routinely gives these people 3 days noticee and then takes everything and tosses it in the dump. There are food kitchens that provide basic food. There are navigation centers that provide counseling and training available. There are a lot of shelter facilities, but it never seems to be enough. Can you give me a post about how you would fix the homeless problem? There are a lot of people trying to figure out how to solve this problem. It still keeps happening. So like I said, I would love to hear your solution.
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