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auteur55

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Posts posted by auteur55

  1. So I had a meeting with a Stake President today who quoted from MOF quite a bit. Said that heavy petting and other non-fornication forms of intimacy were next to murder and were all the same thing. He then went on to remark that he gives this counsel to all the youth and many of them have to wait a year to go on a mission because SWK said there is no difference between heavy petting and having intercourse. He quotes from it likes it's doctrine. I was under the impression the leadership had moved far away from the "next to murder" counsel when dealing with the youth and sexual sin but apparently not.

     

    So this book has done anything but gone away. 

  2. But we don't typically want to coerce confessions do we. A man or woman must humble themselves and willingly come forward to confess and forsake sin. They must be brought to that moment on their own through the spirit of the lord. We don't want to get in the habit of ambushing members with accusations. I totally get it in situations of child abuse, spouse abuse or legal related sins but playing the police and getting "tips" from people about past sins doesn't sit easy with me. Maybe my friend already resolved his issue with a past Bishop, or maybe he took it to the Lord, stopped doing it and felt ok about moving forward. I don't think calling out members in a Bishops setting and embarrasing them about past issues is an appropriate means of bringing about repentance. Am I wrong?

  3. So I recently heard from a friend of mine who recently left the church about some of the reasons he left. One story he related to me didn't seem right. He claims a sister he dated in another ward in another state went to her bishop to confess some sins that happened two years prior. The sins involved my friend and were sexual in nature (nothing major but it happened more then a few times). The Bishop disciplined the sister and then called the Bishop of the ward my friend was in several states over and that Bishop called him in and brought up everything and basically called him out on it.

     

    Is that a normal thing? Is the church like a network going after fugitives and when someone confess's sin they get the name of whoever was involved and hunt them down. Seemed a bit weird and I could understand why my friend was a little irked about it. 

  4. Again faithful members of the church want to serve. I love my service in the church and it has made me a deeper, more caring person and I'm grateful for all the opportunities the church can give us to "be our brothers keeper." What I'm suggesting is that in some areas members are over burdened to the point of exhaustion because there are so many meetings, assignments, activities, home visits and responsibilities.  There are also way too many elements that can create unhealthy guilt and stress. Our assignments are presented as our Priesthood duty and we've had significant chastisement several times in Elders Quorum about how short we fall of that duty as a whole.  I've noticed some members thrive on this they love the high level almost complete sacrificial dedication to building the kingdom. When they get into leadership positions they often impose this on the members who can't go at their pace. 

     

    An example: The bishop here wants to improve sacrament meetings. He has asked the Sunday School President to now meet with everyone assigned to give a talk 2-3 weeks our for 20-30 minutes and train them on best practices when speaking in church. He tells them things like don't write a talk, don't lean on the podium, etc etc and he may give feedback when your talk is over. Helpful right? Well I know that some members despise this idea and don't need the added pressure of having to measure up to these talk guidelines and feel they are being scored. Many members in my ward are creating these kinds of initiatives all the time and trying to implement them on top of all the other stuff already stacking up. That's how things like " we need to have members of every auxillary visiting members homes throughout the week" happens. It's a weird way to go above and beyond your calling.

     

    I did take the advice about growing a backbone and texted the Elders Quorum President about assigning Cannery visits in the middle of the work day and then texting us several times a week to remind us we had to be there or find a replacement had caused some stress and un-needed guilt for me. I gave him the idea that maybe mandatory scheduling of those assignments for the Elders may not be the best way. His response was that he was sorry it caused me stress but he has had numerous stress himself trying to fulfill assignments and has had to take off work several times. He said he understands because he has this guilt and stress all the time and was having a problem finding volunteers so went to the mandatory scheduling. Again I found it sad that we didn't realize that the REAL problem was we were talking about guilt and stress like it's a normal part of being a member of the church.

  5. Are people really so busy that they don't have any time during a two week period that they can't receive a visit from a ward member?  It would seem like that would be even more of a problem than the supposed pressure from ward leaders to make a visit.

     

    And as I said before, I've never had anyone tell me that a church assignment, especially a visit, was so life and death that all other considerations had to be tossed aside.

     

    The whole scenario that the OP is presenting just doesn't ring true to me.  Being asked to fulfill a welfare assignment instead of going to work?  Really?  That one is also hard to swallow.

    I'm more then happy to take a picture of my assignment sheet with it's corresponding time and PM it to you if don't believe me. 

  6. "We need to give the members their lives back and lay off the guilt tripping. "

     

    Hey auteur,

    I agree.  But you need to learn how to say "no," and to not feel guilty when you don't feel you have the time.  Your family comes first in this Church.  If you have time left over, fine.  Otherwise keep your callings to maybe one, and your assignments to 3 to 5 per year.  Go to the temple once a month.  No need to be perfect.  No one is, and you are not expected to be.  Just do your best within reason, and let the chips fall where they may.  Your ward is probably poorly organized and the bishopric doing a poor job of managing everything.  This life is a learning experience for the bishop and for everyone else.  Pace yourself.

    I often hear this but I don't believe it's realistic. At the beginning of the year we are given an assignment sheet that talks about all the stuff we have to do during the year. It's presented as our duty as priesthood holders to fulfill these assignments. If you don't show you are called out. If you constantly get replacements you get a reputation. We have had a high council come and go fifteen minutes over the hour telling us it is simply unacceptable to not fulfill these assignments. Cleaning the building once every six months is fine. a 12:30 shift at a cannery on a Tuesday not so much. Turning down callings isn't something anyone likes to do and I'm telling you you start to get a reputation in a ward when you do that. It's heavily frowned upon to turn things down.

     

    In PEC recently the bishop said he wanted all the Auxillaries to do 2-3 personal home visits a week. This is crazy as it means members will be bombarded with people trying to make appts to come see them. What is everyone supposed to do? Challenge the Bishop and say it's too much? People are afraid to speak up. I was asked in our presidency meeting to make an appt with this sister who taught the 16 yr olds. It was one of these home visits. I called her and pushed for the appt and eventually she snapped, said her husband wouldn't be home (away at a church assignment imagine that) and she had too much to do and had to get the kids to bed. Basically shut me down. I admired her for standing up to us but we were just trying to fulfill direction from the bishop. I was kind of angry I was even in that situation where I am constantly calling members and asking them to participate in trainings, home visits, staff meetings. it's becoming insane. 

  7. Out of curiosity, how many hours per week do you suppose you put into your callings and assignments (on average, outside of the three hour block)?

    Not nearly enough. One of them I feel suffers because the other one is so demanding. I do feel I am always behind on house cleaning, yard maintenance and essential household needs because a lot of that time is swallowed up in church stuff. I'm a single dad trying to date as well but there is just little time for that. 

  8. I simply have to get this off my chest. Ever since I moved to Utah two and half years ago I have noticed something that is troubling me greatly and even causing me to have some mild faith issues. I don't know if this is happening all over the place i just know it's happening in my current ward and I do think it speaks to a more widespread church problem. 

     

    to put it simply: Church members are being crushed and overwhelmed with a constant barrage of  assignments, guilt trips, callings and activities. I've never seen an organization thrust so many things onto it's members and cause so much stress and guilt when we fail to fulfill them. I thought I was the only one feeling this way until I heard these complaints coming from everyone I got to know in the ward. The women here looked stressed beyond belief and many of the men look lost in a sea of endless meetings and assignments. Not to say they don't love the gospel they do but they are stretched thin and are weary.

     

    I have two callings and struggle to get all the things done for them with my full time job. I always feel as though I'm dropping the ball and I feel guilty. Beyond that I have an assignment sheet that has me scheduled at the cannary (during a work day!!) ushering, splits with missionaries, snow removal, chair set up, church cleaning, taking youth to temple and activity assignments. Beyond that there is home teaching that needs to get done, ward temple night, temple committee assignments and visits. One of my callings has me in a meeting every Sunday at 1:00 and weekly teacher visits and monthly training. All this is done before we even get to the basics of the gospel like family history research, service activities, temple attendance and family home evening.

     

    Once in my meeting we brought up the stake calendar to find one night to book a teacher training. We literally could not find one night that wasn't full with something. You know like Scouts, young men and young women activities, ward activities, scouts activities random stake leadership trainings. It goes on and on and on. I had my home teacher over once (ward mission leader) and he was talking about how the bishop makes the entire PEC attend weekly. He is  up at 6:00 every sunday morning and sits through a 3 hour meeting most of which doesn't pertain to him. He was saying people in the ward keep creating initiatives and ideas that consistently add to everyones current responsibilities. You could tell he was completely burned out. The sad thing is I know that my obligations are nothing compared to many others especially those in the Bishopric.

     

    Oh and at least once a month we spend an entire Priesthood meeting getting lectured about how bad everyone is at fulfilling assignments. Someone doesn't show up for a ward cleaning or a Cannery assignment and the whole group gets chastised. It's a recurring thing. I was scheduled for a cannery assignment recently on a Tuesday afternoon and had to find a replacement because of an unexpected work obligation. The elders quorum president was very clear i had to find a replacement. I asked several people everyone turned me down, I emailed Elders, high priests, youth presidents. No one could take it. I eventually paid one of the young woman 20 bucks to take the assignment. Embarrassing and ridiculous. I get emails all the time asking me to fulfill assignments that the members struggle with in their busy lives.

     

    I love the gospel and all that it stands for. But we need to cut out half of these ridiculous meetings and assignments. We need to give the members their lives back and lay off the guilt tripping. 

  9. Thanks so much for all the responses. It is really difficult looking for a place from Ohio. Even if I decide I want to go to Farmington when I look online for rentals I have no idea what side of the neighborhood it's on. The reason i'm looking at Northern Utah is my job has me covering everything North of salt lake. That means I can live anywhere North of Salt Lake so I do have some options. I thought Layton Farmington area would be nicely centralized in the territory. I've never understood the criticism of Utah. I only lived there for two years and I know I probably need more exposure but honestly I thought it was the closest i've ever gotten to living in Zion. I didn't experience the judgemental, extremist side of Utah mormons I always hear about out here. My neighborhood was full of incredibly caring, wonderful people who all took care of each other. I also adore the mountains, the atmosphere and seeing temples everywhere so the anti-Utah crowd has always bewildered me.

  10. Hello Everyone, I haven't been on this site in a while. I found a job offer in Utah and I'm seriously considering taking it and going out. It would just be me and my 4 yr old daughter. Obviously finding a place to live while in Ohio is difficult. I want to get in a nice community with lots of good neighbors and kids for my daughter to play with. I can live anywhere in Northern Utah and for some reason have been looking at Layton. Can anyone give me some good suggestions as to where to go and where to stay away from? Anywhere in Layton to not go? Thanks for the help!

  11. Well if you believe Skousen's "Cleansing of America" we will live in a post-apocalyptic world and it will happen soon. We will endure unspeakable trials but the righteous will eventually gather and establish Zion.

    I also have a good friend who has, ahem, certain abilities. This individual believes something monumental that will start all this and change everythinig will happen in 6-7 years. Crazy I know and I mocked her for quite a long time until I experienced some things that few on this board would believe and I now think she's on to something and I am preparing.

  12. At church today we discussed the damaging effects of sexual immorality. The teacher read a quote from Elder Scott that said any sexual encounter with any part of the body whether clothed or un-clothed is strictly forbidden by God (i'm paraphrasing). This was quoted in context of our bodies are our temples scriptures in Corinthians. When the teacher asked why sexual immorality was bad for us and why God wanted us not to do it we had such answers as "because our bodies are a gift from God so we shouldn't defile them" and "because sexuality can result in childbirth and God wants to be in control of when life comes in our out of this world."

    In my opinion none of the comments actually answered the question. I get completely the childbirth thing and I feel that the law of chastity is crucially important to God because of how it can directly affect the future of potential children coming into the world. But not every sexual act leads to child birth so why is the church so militantly strict on relationships with the opposite sex when it has no potential to create children? Is it because they are afraid that it will inevitably lead to sex? The same quote by Scott also remarked on the sin of sexual activities with oneself as being just as bad. Where exactly is the risk of child bearing in that one?

    Don't want to get to graphic but sometimes I am legitimately looking for the divine purpose in some of God's laws. I only question it because I am unsure it is realistic for people who are single for long periods to completely ignore every sexual inclination of their body until they are married. I remember the constant lecturing in the mission field to the missionaries by Area authorities and mission presidents about the problem with self abuse in the mission. I remember being surprised that THEY were surprised that 19 yr old boys had a problem with this.

    I sometimes worry that the immense strictness of this law leads to failed marriages. So many in the church rush into marriage so they can have sex with the person they're dating and i'm sure the tension becomes unbearable after a certain amount of time. I know many who rushed into marriags after their missions because of this and they have ended in divorce. The guilt complex i've seen occur in many members of the church because they experience these urges on a regular basis can sometimes be damaging to our mental health. I know we are here to learn to control our physical bodies and become like God but are we placing to much emphasis on how sinful it is over what our physical bodies seemed engineered to do?

    Just curious?

  13. I've had a hard time with the law of the Sabbath my whole life. I mean I get the commandment. We take one day a week to rest from our labours and focus our activities around the Lord. It's good to have a day to reflect on spiritual matters and to get go to church meetings and partake of the sacrament.

    What I don't get is why the day, for some people, is like a prison cell. I remember growing up and despising the Sabbath when I was younger. It was a day of monotony and restriction. You can't play with friends, engage in any real activities, you can't buy a drink if your thirsty or watch your favorite TV show. You had to sit in boring meetings all morning and then come home and sit in a prison cell where you second guess everything you do and say. I couldn't wait for the day to be over so I could be normal again.

    Now as I've gotten older I've taken a different approach to the Sabbath. I take the Lord at his word when he says it was made for man. A day of rest from the usual hustle of the week. I go on activities, spend quality uplifting time with my family. We'll go to parks, meet family at different places for fun activities, sit on the beach and enjoy the majesty of God's creation. Sometimes I'll engage a good book or have a family movie night with the family. I am trying to raise my daughter with a love for the day where she can shift focus and experience a new kind of freedom.

    For the life of me I can't understand why certain activities are bad for us. Why is throwing the ball with your son Sunday evening a negative thing? How is it taking you away from God? I heard a testimony where a sister said she had to repent because she did laundry on the Sabbath. She had forgot to wash something she needed and had no choice. She was talking about how guilty she felt for this. I don't understand this way of thinking. How does picking up a load o clothes, moving them two feet to a washer and pushing a button desecrate the sabbath? Why can we clean the dishes after eating a meal but can't clean up a few of the other messes. Especially since, at times, our Saturdays are filled with other activities like church meetings, elders quorum moves and family trips. Sometimes I feel like we turn the Lord's commandments into such a restrictive lifestyle that we bleed any of the fun out of life.

  14. So I'm going on a trip to California in September with a friend of mine and her parents. We are staying at a beach house that literally sits right on the beach for the entire week. I'll be there with my daughter and all the family's other grandkids. The mother told everyone that she strictly forbids anyone getting into the water on Sunday. When I asked why the kids couldn't get into the water but she was ok with them sitting on the beach building sand castles she said because Satan controls the water. When I asked why is swimming on Sunday anymore dangerous then swimming on Monday she said "because if we are breaking the Sabbath it gives Satan more power." Now I'm not even debating the logic behind how letting a wave splash on you is somehow breaking the Sabbath but I was pretty floored upon hearing this. My friend's Mom is a smart, rational human being yet somehow this type of irrational, illogical piece of folklore has crept into her belief system.

    Now i've always believed that the Satan controlling the waters thing was simple Mormon folklore and mis-interpretation of scripture but I'm amazed at some of the things well intentioned, well educated Mormons will believe.

    Also the longer I'm in the church the more disturbed I get by differing interpretation on what constitutes Sabbath breaking and what doesn't. I think some of the most extremist examples of Mormon worship revolve around this. Some people are borderline sociopathic on what they'll do to avoid breaking the sabbath to the point of squeezing every bit of common sense and joy out of the day. Others are super strict about some things while doing other activities that aren't much different. How do these types of folklore and legends end up being so widely believed and accepted?

  15. Thanks for everyone's great comments. This is without a doubt the greatest trial I've endured and there are days I'm not sure I'll survive it. To make matters worse my ex-wife has completely left the church, and appears to only have marginal concern for how her daughter will respond to this. I have reason to believe a mental illness is driving much of her tragic behavior. My worry for my child is endless day after day.

    The good news is so far it looks like we won't have a custody battle. I'll keep my child with me until we get closer to where the mother lives (who knows when that will be) and when that happens she has her Tuesday, Wednesday and every other weekend. Not a bad deal for me. I just hope that holds up during the dissolusion.

    My other struggle is understanding how someone could do this to their family. There is another father I know in my old ward who left his wife and 4 children for a younger woman. He only see's them every other weekend. He was always a good member of the church from what I could tell. I simply don't get how people make decisions that move forward their own self interest while destroying the lives of those they are supposed to protect and love. These are strange times.

  16. So my wife came home after Christmas for about 2 weeks and then left again. This time she said it was permanent. She wants me to just put together a dissolution. I will have custody of the child and she will come see her until I can move closer then she wants to make other arrangements. So it looks like I will be making the transition to single father with a 2 yr old. Something I never wanted to be and I have no idea where to even begin or go from here. I am in Ohio where not only are members scarce but single adults are scarer. I Can't move anywhere because of my daughter. I took a look at a few dating sites just to see what they were about and they look dismal. Any suggestions on how I make this transition without breaking down?

    Thanks

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