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changed

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  1. That is a good example... any more recent examples?
  2. Holland's sweet story about the estranged missionaries brothers comes to mind... https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865685840/Elder-Holland-withdraws-Church-News-missionary-story.html Thanks Tacenda. I know so very many victims are not believed.... I'm almost thankful our abuser used a videotape. ... almost.
  3. I'm #823. "The identify of the people involved in the following account have been omitted to protect the privacy of those involved. Those wishing to verify this submission may contact Sam, who can then release my contact info for further confidential discussion if needed. I will not share or discuss the details of this case with anyone who is not an authority figure tasked with altering current church policies to better protect LDS youth. Anyone requesting information will need to verify their identity, and sign confidentiality agreements before further information is shared."
  4. like it or not... “Yes, it’s true, but I don’t think they like to hear it quite that way.” - President Kimball Everyone is free to pray and find out for themselves, but if your personal conclusions and conscience lead you to believe something different than what is handed down from on high, ... LGBT policies are not loving and kind? Believe racist policies were not from God? Believe women should be prophets too (as there were female prophets in the Bible)? Believe children are unsafe alone with the bishop? Have a child who was molested by a bishopric member? keep your mouth shut about it or you will be labeled an apostate.... sorry - I do not see a healthy platform to discuss and disagree with church leaders. People say Sam Young did not behave correctly - but tell me - kids are being molested - it is an emergency situation - so... you whisper about the fire that is raging and hurting children?? you wrote "Does that mean that we have to pray about everything the prophet says? Yes, if necessary. But hopefully we are so close to the Spirit that we recognize the truthfulness of a prophet’s statement when we hear it. And, in fact, if we are continually in doubt about what the prophet says, that means that we are NOT living worthy to have the Spirit with us. " in other words - if you disagree with anything the prophet states, you are wrong. I am wrong to think the church should not have excluded blacks. I am wrong to think the church should not have conducted one-on-one interviews with children. I am wrong to think the church handled prop 8 incorrectly. I am wrong to have thought LGBT kids should not be excluded. I guess I just don't have the spirit.
  5. it is sad that church policies divide families - makes those who are not "sealed in the temple" feel less-than, and disconnected from one another. It has taken me a long time to get that teaching out of my head. The church does not dictate family bonds.
  6. I'm in a mixed faith relationship and I will concur. There is no support for abuse victims. There is very little support for those with marital issues, for those going through divorce, and no support for those going through a faith crisis. There are "acceptable" problems in the church like health issues, employment, someone passing away etc. ... and then there are "unacceptable" issues like being LGBT, abuse, how to handle pedophiles, how to support broken marriages etc. I was hit on all sides by all of it all at once - abuse from bishopric member (who is now in jail), followed by others in leadership belittling and denying what happened (the years and years and years of abuse were videotaped - they guy got life in jail without parole - and yet - everyone still denies that their bishopric councilor - who was "called from God" did anything wrong???) dealing with the kids who were abused, dealing with a spouse who it turns out was abused and led to multiple dysfunctions, and what support was there?? I was flat out told by my bishop "I'm sorry, I have no experience with that" - last I heard from him. Two meetings - one where he backed away and clearly showed me he wanted nothing to do with me or any of it - and another meeting where I turned in my TR ad asked to be released from all callings because I no longer recognized any leadership in the church. I lost my faith, I lost my family, the only support I got was from the ex-mo community, and they were awesome.
  7. Do you feel free to vocally disagree with policies and practices which are harmful? What are your thoughts on Sam Young?
  8. Still waiting for legit examples SteveO...
  9. This is what comes up when I google "Elder Marlin Jensen apologized for prop 8" "https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elder-jensen-prop-8-apology_b_739609" The headline “Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8” is a bit misleading. I was present at the meeting. There was a great deal of pain expressed by a number of people about their experiences around Prop 8 and the larger context of church policy regarding gay people. It was a remarkable meeting, and Elder Jensen took copious notes and was visibly emotionally touched as he listened to the stories. At no time did he say anything like, “I know Proposition 8 was a mistake and I apologize for that mistake.” He was responding personally and in general to the extraordinary pain he was witnessing. No one had a tape recorder, but I wrote down the words, “...Do we owe an apology? I will say I am sorry. To the full extent of my capacity I say I am sorry.” It was a sincere and moving statement. It would not be constructive to make his statement sound like something it was not. The meeting itself was an historical event, for which I and many others are deeply grateful.
  10. It was not a joke that I made up (half of my family is Catholic). Most people believe there is a personal part to belief and Individual testimony. It just very much confuses me how anyone would put all their eggs into one imperfect basket, and rely 100% on the arm of flesh. It seems very unhealthy to me to allow another person to do all the thinking, to not allow oneself to disagree. All Mormons do not do this, but a few do.
  11. and paid back the $250? Do you have a reference for that?
  12. You are avoiding the issue - yes or no. Do prophets consider themselves to be infallible? When is a prophet or leader speaking for God, and when are they not?
  13. I think the safest bet is to take data from a variety of sources - more than my own head, and also more than the church as well, into consideration. Yes - people from may different denominations claim guidance from God and perhaps receive it for themselves - I just do not see anyone as holding the keys to any other person's salvation, believe that we are all accountable for ourselves, and to God directly without a middleman.
  14. Some great quotes in there - when the prophet speaks, the debate is over. - “Yes, it’s true, but I don’t think they like to hear it quite that way.”.... “when our leaders speak, the thinking has been done.”... The same idea said any number of ways comes across the same. It appears the prophet considers himself to be infallible, considers himself to be perfect - which to me is blasphemous... ..."We need to much more carefully address whether in fact our prophets are infallible, and whether everything they say is the very word of prophecy." So when does everyone think the prophet is speaking for God, vs. not? .... thus saith the Lord____ ← when was the last time anyone said that?? and if they do not say it, then just ignore it? thus saith the Lord... all children 12 years and older shall meet privately behind closed with their bishop and discuss their sexual morality? thus saith the Lord... children of LGBT parents will be excluded from church?? thus saith the Lord all those of African decent shall not be given the priesthood?
  15. So - let's say there is some issue, such as Blacks the the priesthood, which do not align with your revelation... (had this discussion with my Stake Pres)... He said - I did not agree with it, but I kept silent about it. ... I thought that was horrible - to know people are suffering and excluded and there is racism, but not say anything? Not try to help those who are hurting over it? From the LDS Church's Handbook of Instructions, Section 6.7.3: Apostasy …[A]postasy refers to members who: Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders. ... not being able to disagree - question - or "oppose" imperfect leaders is a bit... I guess I will not say it. Sam Young also comes to mind. It started with Sam's own children you know - and blew up into what it is now... he was thrown into this very real problem, with legitimate concerns - and was excommunicated for it...
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