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      Contact Us Broken   09/27/2016

      Users, It has come to our attention that the contact us feature on the site is broken.  Please do not use this feature to contact board admins.  Please go through normal channels.  If you are ignored there then assume your request was denied. Also if you try to email us that email address is pretty much ignored.  Also don't contact us to complain, ask for favors, donations, or any other thing that you may think would annoy us.  Nemesis

Hamba Tuhan

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Hamba Tuhan last won the day on January 4 2016

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About Hamba Tuhan

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    Brings Forth Plants

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    an isle of the sea

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  1. Building mortal into God

    Mate, what else can we know except for our personal experiences? It sounds to me like you want me to reject my personal experiences based on your hypothetical, which I have not experienced. That sounds like a pretty bad deal to me. More guessing. This time I agree with you, though based solidly in personal experience. If you'll read it carefully, you'll note that I agreed with you in my earlier post as well. This is not an 'all or nothing' proposition. It 'feels' like that because you've actually experienced it? Or are you just constructing another hypothetical in your mind and imbuing it with pseudo-experiential substance because you think/hope/want it to be the case? Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see. Yes, absolutely. See it. Experience it, both individually and collectively. Why else would I be a Church member?
  2. I actually don't know. I was in another stake when this all happened, and the only reason I knew about it was because, much later in my mission, I mentioned the war wounds from my having attempted to serve in that ward, and another Elder who was there during the correction said, approximately, 'Oh, that's been taken care of'', accompanied by the few details I shared on this forum. I think most people were just relieved. We missionaries certainly were. I don't recall any desire on my part for leadership changes.
  3. I've met very few people in the Church who aren't open and don't welcome 'some level of personal thought'. They do exist, but they're rare, in my experience, and I've certainly never been a member of a ward or branch that did not welcome me, my thoughts, and my desires to make a contribution with open arms (and sometimes with open glee!). Mate, did you miss the part where I mentioned that an apostle visited the ward and quelled the rising apostasy? If you're willing to go out of your way to visit a congregation that's careening into a defiant rejection of revelation and priesthood authority, you may want to skip the intermediate stages and just pick some man-made church?
  4. Building mortal into God

    You do seem to guess a lot... So what exactly does the Church offer? My answer to that question -- and the answers from those I know best -- comes from personal experience. Exactly seven days ago, I helped bury one of my good mates. He joined the Church nine years ago. He spent about two years living with me. He told me one night that he loved the Church so much because it made him more. Many things, he said, made him less. Most things just left him untouched. Occasionally, he said, one finds something that makes a person more, and then it is wise to hold onto that thing with all one has. He had trouble holding on all the time. But every time he let go, he became less. And every time he came back, he became more. He spent the last six months of his life living with a good family in our stake. He was preparing to go back to the temple. He loved the 'moreness' of it. He didn't make it. But I share his assessment. I've been in and out. I've exercised faith and wallowed in doubt. I've sinned and repented. I've laid nervous hands on many heads and waited for words to come. I've watched those words be fulfilled in every detail. I've heard the voice of the Spirit, the voice of God, and the voices of angels. I prefer in over out. I've learnt to love faith 1,000 times more than doubt. I'm excellent at both sinning and repenting, but one leaves me more, and one leaves me less, so I choose the 'more' option more often than the 'less' option. And I belong to a vibrant, thriving community of people whose experiences are identical to mine. Whenever we get together, we talk about the miracle of it all: how it works in our lives. We can finish each other's sentences because our experiences have all been so similar. We nod in knowing agreement with both casual comments and formal testimonies. We recognise both the voice of God and the familiarity of our own private experiences in the words of the living prophets. We see visions and dream dreams. Does this all exist outside of the Church? Yes, in part. I still haven't found the complete deal anywhere else. To whom shall I go? I know my answer.
  5. I served in the United States.
  6. But I really liked last month's home teaching message on multi-million-dollar real estate deals made in boardrooms behind closed doors. And this month's message about how nothing is right and nothing is wrong, so why worry? And I found all the General Conference talks last April on how there is no power from God especially enlightening. Guess the Snuffer's got nothing for people like me then...
  7. This is exactly how I feel. My impression is that the internet allows for the amplification of rather isolated weirdness. Or maybe I'm just lucky?
  8. In the first instance, you used the wording 'moving toward apostasy', and I can certainly see that. I served in a ward on my mission that was making a similar move. It had been allowed over some years to become a safe haven for a progressive/feminist clique that was growing in its influence and reach. In my time, we had ceased holding 'gendered' meetings (so priesthood and Relief Society were combined each week), and a blind eye was turned when a sister in the ward helped with the blessing of her baby. These were more symptoms, though. The weekly discussion groups and photocopied newsletter and occasional seminars were where the real movement was, and I could see it spreading to other wards in the stake. A couple of them had started their own weekly discussion groups, and members of some of these other wards were contributing pieces to the newsletter. Needless to say, missionary work in the ward was at zero. Some months after I was transferred, I heard that one of the Twelve had paid a visit to the ward and explained that certain things needed to change immediately and that anyone who couldn't take the changes would be removed from Church membership, and that seemed to stop it -- though really it probably just forced some pockets of it underground. I suspect the whole stake could have become involved, however, if something drastic hadn't been done. I served in the same stake twice after that and saw little open evidence of the movement.
  9. MormonLeaks: Elder Perry on Homosexuality

    Interesting. I'm a faithful Latter-day Saint, and I go to church each Sunday with about 150 additional faithful Latter-day Saints, and I have heard a grand total of one of them ever suggest this. I also live with a black, African-born man who is another faithful Latter-day Saint, and he certainly doesn't 'understand' this. Are you sure you aren't projecting?
  10. MormonLeaks: Elder Perry on Homosexuality

    Does one need a reason for talking like Popeye?
  11. MormonLeaks: Elder Perry on Homosexuality

    I'm assuming this is the pluralis majestatis -- in actual usage, certainly in tone.
  12. MormonLeaks: Elder Perry on Homosexuality

    I'm happy to be party to this bet!
  13. MormonLeaks: Elder Perry on Homosexuality

    For that matter, neither do legislative votes or citizen plebiscites.