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Sevenbak

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About Sevenbak

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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  1. With all the seemingly fresh accusation threads of a “coverup” about the seer stone, I think it’s important to provide some historical context and references to church publications and correlated materials that reference said seer stones, head in hat, etc. When the seer stone is talked about openly in the publication for primary kids, and in the Ensign, by multiple apostles, and a future prophet, so many decades ago, I just don't see such a nefarious coverup as some here do. While the references aren't prolific, they certainly were not hidden. Personally, I've known about them as long as I can remember. I’ll post a few here, anyone else feel free to do the same. Children's Friend, 1974 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1974/09/a-peaceful-heart?lang=eng "which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate. Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone." Ensign, 1977 https://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/09/by-the-gift-and-power-of-god.p41 ...the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone.... “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light. And in the darkness the spiritual light would shine.” Ensign, 1993 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament.p13?lang=eng "The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote: Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light;" Ensign, 1997 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1997/01/by-the-gift-and-power-of-god?lang=eng "The Prophet Joseph alone knew the full process, and he was deliberately reluctant to describe details. We take passing notice of the words of David Whitmer, Joseph Knight, and Martin Harris, who were observers, not translators. David Whitmer indicated that as the Prophet used the divine instrumentalities provided to help him..." ...Martin Harris related of the seer stone: “Sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written".... ..."If by means of these divine instrumentalities the Prophet was seeing ancient words rendered in English and then dictating, he was not necessarily and constantly scrutinizing the characters on the plates—the usual translation process of going back and forth between pondering an ancient text and providing a modern rendering. The revelatory process apparently did not require the Prophet to become expert in the ancient language. The constancy of revelation was more crucial than the constant presence of opened plates, which, by instruction, were to be kept from the view of unauthorized eyes anyway. While the use of divine instrumentalities might also account for the rapid rate of translation, the Prophet sometimes may have used a less mechanical procedure... ...We simply do not know the details.Elder Orson Pratt of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said Joseph Smith told him that he used the Urim and Thummim when he was inexperienced at translation but that later he did not need it, which was the case in Joseph’s translation of many verses of the Bible (see Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, 11 Aug. 1874, 498–99).
  2. I find this interesting as I have a son serving his mission in Peru, and the additional legends sound very much like they could be out of 3rd Nephi. However, to be on honest, I think he could have taken these accounts in Peru straight from a New Era article in 1978, over 40 years ago. I’m not seeing anything new. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/1978/12/four-peruvian-versions-of-the-white-god-legend?lang=eng
  3. According to the prophets and correlated church curriculum, prior to the fall, the earth was very close to Kolob, and we don't know how much the earth changed while/coming to its current location after the fall. So, perhaps both statements are correct about another planet and the garden of eden...
  4. One of my favorite stories out of church history lore on this subject is the Zeke Johnson story. Whether it’s true or not is questionable, but he is certainly earnest and passionate in his telling of it. http://emp.byui.edu/huffr/Plan of Salvation/Resurrection/Zeke Johnson experience.pdf If Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones is anything more than just allegorical, then perhaps Zeke’s experience is worth consideration. At the very least, food for thought.
  5. I found this interesting in light of conventional science proclaiming no metallurgy in ancient America. Thoughts? http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/54996 ”When the first skeletal remains were unearthed, there were no grave goods found in the burial space. Complete excavation revealed that the youth was indeed buried with objects, a dozen used tools. It just took them a while to find them because they were all placed in one location: on his chest with his hands on top of them. They were tools, most of them bronze — a fine-toothed saw, an axe, several knives, a chisel — and had originally been bundled in fabric as well. Some fragments of that textile have survived.” “Even stronger evidence that the young man was a professional metallurgist is the inclusion of slag in the burial. A byproduct of the smelting of ore, slag isn’t found at random in Wari tombs. Archaeologists believe it was a deliberate burial meant to symbolize his trade.”
  6. That is indeed a positive outcome, and I too enjoyed it from home yesterday. Hope you're enjoying retirement Scott! I'm glad to be out of that world as well. The things I miss are far less than the things I don't miss.
  7. I have a huge problem with the Kate Kelly stunt and the crowd she said she represented. The news footage you saw was likely shot by me, as I was at the park with them during the "protest" for KSL. I can tell you that the phones only came out AFTER the cameras showed up. And even then it was very sporadic. They were not there to watch the session on tv, but to be on tv. The whole event smelled fishy from the beginning and got worse as it went on. Kate was supposedly the music director in her ward. When she decided to lead everyone in a "hymn", with one of the most recognized and loved hymns in the church, The Spirit of God Like A Fire is Burning, she had to look up the words on her phone in order to lead just the first verse. It wasn't the first time the media have been exploited in this fashion, but the event and subsequent events of that story still leave a bad taste in my mouth.
  8. For all we know, the pageant preps and ever expanding pageant creep was encroaching on Cumorah's cave. Maybe it's time to move the wagon-loads of plates, but there's those darned stage lights right on top of the burried opening... 😉 Maybe it is from God...
  9. It doesn't bother the Lord to talk about it, we probably shouldn't let it bother us... Amos 8: 11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a afamine of bread, nor a bthirst for water, but of hearing the cwords of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall arun to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it. 13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
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