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About 3DOP

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    Brings Forth Plants

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    Vancouver, WA
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    Peace, Baseball, Beer, Joy, War, Boxing, Tolstoy, Wine, Church, Tennis, Family, Monastics, Economics, Politics, Scotland, Oceans, Prayer, Heaven, Flowers, Space, Bobby Darin, Time, Dracula, Rivers, Fire, Angels, Aquinas, Real Estate, Maureen O'Hara, Fish, Wind, Honey, Motion, The First Lady of Song, French, Dostoevsky, Skin, Stones, Death, Laughter, Chivalry, Rimsky-Korsakov, Leisure, Numbers, Pain, Berries, Sleep, Cities, Spiders, Nutrition, Hair, Unity, Variety, Industrialization, Sight, Memory, Merging, Buster Keaton, The Rockefellers, Seafaring, Taste, Bone, Barbecue, Melancholy, Virtue, Prison, Lava, Stomach Acid, Olivia de Havilland, and Michaelangelo.

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  1. 3DOP

    Evolution and beauty

    Like I try to say with changed...could we agree that humans have the capacity to do more with less?
  2. 3DOP

    Evolution and beauty

    You disagree with me? In what way? I agree with what you wrote. I am not saying that the other animals receive less information from their senses. I think many of the non-human animals have more acute sensory perception. I hold that human animals do more with less information because of a superior intellect that interprets the information. I am in admiration of the eels, or else the God who made eels, that return to where they spawned. I don't attribute that to eel intellect. I am suggesting that for the non-human animals, instinct replaces intellect. But I ain't no philosopher. I am sure I have been imprecise.Truck driver to factory hand. I never come out ahead when I oppose you guys. But let me try to explain. It seems like we could agree. I know that every eel has sensory perception beyond my own. Does it follow that every eel understands beauty better? I don't think any eel, even the most educated and elite of them, heh, distinguishes the beautiful from the ugly. I think it is beyond their scope. The same for birds, bears...shoot...I am such a humanist. It's late. Sorry to be contentious. Rory
  3. 3DOP

    Evolution and beauty

    Hey Mark. Good to see you. Do you think that a human understanding of what might be beautiful is equal, superior, inferior, or mixed, as compared to a bird? I am not ragging on birds. It seems only accurate to me, as a human, to have a "superiority complex", if you will, in comparison to birds, when it comes to appreciation for beauty. I think many animals, including us humans, have an instinctive desire for mating. I don't know if I could think that birds think one is cute and another not. I tend to think that bird mating depends very little on the difference between eligible candidates. But I am interested in your ideas on the intellectual capacity of birds and whether they discern beauty in another of their kind. Being so biased towards humans as I am, I have the boldness to think I know better than a bird what makes a bird pretty! Am I nuts? There. I have spilled my guts. Your turn. Rory
  4. 3DOP

    Monasticism in christianity

    Does everyone agree about what Christian monasticism is? In order to understand those Christians who place value on a life of monastic seclusion, one has to first appreciate the distinction the Catholic draws between the precepts/commandments of God which must be observed to gain salvation in the next life, against the counsels of God by which the soul can more easily reach a higher state of perfection, but cannot be practised by everyone. The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913 explains: ---http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04435a.htm Notice how these counsels we speak of are not binding upon everyone. If they were, marriage would be forbidden, and indeed there have been heretical groups that have taken the counsel for chastity, and made it into a commandment. The three evangelical counsels are poverty, chastity, and obedience. Catholics would say that beginning in the crib at Bethlehem, Our Lord Jesus Christ began showing those privileged ones how to live such a life, when he stripped Himself of all the glory and honor and power that was rightly His in heaven, and came to us as a baby. This holy season of Christmas is when we revisit the unimaginable, apart from faith, idea of God Almighty becoming a baby. For this reason, because He did it first, Jesus Christ can say to the rich of this world to sell what they have and like Him, live a life of detachment from the goods of this world for the sake of poverty. This past Sunday we witnessed the Feast of the Holy Family, where we visited the occasion when the Son of God and of Mary, was found at the age of twelve in the Temple at Jerusalem having been lost for three days to His parents. They didn't fully understand what He meant when Jesus explained His absence by asking how they did not know He would be about "His Father's business". While His parents ponder the mystery of this omnipotent and omniscient Child/God, the last thing we hear about Him before He begins His public life, is that He made Himself subject to them. Jesus can ask us to be obedient to those who are over us, especially when He was obedient to those who were "over" Him. This would be one of many examples of the evangelical counsel of obedience that our Lord practised. By poverty we are delivered from the world. By obedience we are delivered from our ambitions. By chastity we are delivered from fleshly appetites. The King of kings renounced his rights to these. I would be surprised if we could not find words on this subject from Catholic Tradition which show that the monastic life is the natural development among souls who are able and willing to follow Jesus Christ more perfectly following all three counsels. A few more words from the Encyclopedia might help here: ---ibid The next three days will witness the feasts for the two most celebrated of the first monks. St. Paul the Hermit's feast is on the 15th of January and St. Antony Abbot is on the 17th. If there seems to be any interest, perhaps we can take a closer look at the first hermit, a real prodigy, St. Paul, and the first superior of an actual monastery, St. Antony, where monks actually began to live all three counsels in community together. For practical reasons, the monastic life couldn't have arrived fully formed. It appears that one thing led to another and another, until the monastery appeared. By the way, monasteries have NOT disappeared, and are as important as ever, as their mission has expanded beyond the goal of personal perfection towards intercessory prayer and sacrifice for those living amidst the spiritual dangers of the world. But that would need to wait for yet another post. I appreciate the inquiry Avatar. Rory
  5. 3DOP

    Evolution and beauty

    Beauty cannot be discerned apart from the intelligence which elevates humans above the other animals. Does anybody think that snakes appreciate a sunset, or a Beethoven sonata? That is not to rag on snakes or bears or pigeons. Beauty isn't discerned by the senses alone. Pigeons can see a lot of things that are objectively beautiful. Can they take the same delight in them as can those who are made in God's image?
  6. 3DOP

    Video games

    I have a hard time agreeing, though I lack experiences. I tend to think that so-called real activities are more healthy physically and mentally than virtual activities. Just guessing. Not trying to be Mr. Sociologist. But I, who have never skiied, hunted, and have caught one little fish once, would be much more pleased to see my grandchildren have an interest, or even an obsession with any of those things instead of video games.
  7. 3DOP

    Video games

    While true that those who retain discipline and ambition are not susceptible to immoderation, is it not possible that for many, the video game drains discipline and ambition? I have experienced a lack of desire for study in preference for becoming absorbed in a game or even just the internet. I think, as with alcohol, we have to understand that those who cannot control it in their lives, need help. By the way, congratulations for holding your boy off. I am sure you were both gratified when he beat you and you were trying. I wouldn't take something like that from anybody. Video games are not bad, but I think they should be seen as something that can be a problem for many.
  8. 3DOP

    Video games

    My son-in-law is a European in his first year teaching at a large southeastern university in the United States. He has been amazed that he has had to discipline college students because they are fooling around with cell phones during class. He is going to be a great teacher I know, and will find a better position with more motivated students in the future. For now though, he has to take a step back, and be determined to do his best with whoever is taking his classes for whatever reason, trying to help them understand that an American university education is not cheap and not to be squandered texting your friends or playing video games! I would love to take one of his classes (he teaches a foreign language), and I do not believe it is his fault when many of these kids are just bored with the idea of learning about a rich culture and another language.
  9. 3DOP

    Alma 20:17-18 and Salvation for the Dead

    Not truckin'. Although I kept my CDL...yesterday...in my new home state. I don't know the story of this man. Anyway...peace on earth to men of good will. Only haters go to hell. It seems like this fellow in Alma might be in danger of hating God or man, who we are enjoined to love as ourselves.
  10. 3DOP


    Hi Storm Rider. By the way, you meant to say that you don't know a child alive..."that hasn't had parents make decisions on their behalf." Who should make the decision to do countless things for a child until it is competent to make its own decisions? Parents can make bad decisions. But societies have naturally acknowledged parents are the most likely of all qualified candidates to make decisions for children. Why? Because even some of the worst people want their own children cared for. Very few parents deliberately make decisions for their children that they think will be harmful. Whatever their race or religion, nation or tribe, parents ordinarily try to help their children and that is why I will always fight for the rights of parents to make harmful decisions for their children. This is also a principle which informs Catholics that even though a child in their temporary custody might seem to benefit, if they should be secretly baptized, that it is forbidden without parental consent. No parent is perfect. But unless I thought they did it because they hated me, I could never begrudge them for any of the mistakes mine might have made, including decisions about my male anatomy.
  11. 3DOP

    Alma 20:17-18 and Salvation for the Dead

    Hi Bernard, It would seem that Ammon is revealing to the father of Lamoni that should he decide to do murder and leave this life in unrepented anger, that he should not expect to be able to give up his anger, receiving the baptism of repentance in the next life. This passage is talking about one individual and a distinct state of soul at time of death. It might be a revelation applying only to this one particular soul. It might be stretched to a revelation about all souls who die as it was feared Lamoni might. But as a non-LDS, I could never use this passage to prove that the Book of Mormon contradicts itself here. At most, it is saying that one or some souls may not be suited for baptism after death. It certainly isn't excluding everyone from post-mortal baptism. Maybe there are teachings about free will that contradict such an interpretation? Unless there are, as a non-LDS, I would be satisfied if you understood this passage as a prophecy that this particular man's will could be so fixed after death that he would not change his mind if he could.
  12. 3DOP


    Hi pogi. I could have been clearer about my meaning. I was referring to the possible spiritual harm to the child whose parents neglected to have circumcised under the Old Covenant. I was simply wondering how others here might explain the penalty for an uncircumcised male child whose "soul shall be destroyed out of his people: because he hath broken my covenant." (Gen. 17:14) You wrote the quote above in reply to my interest in circumcision for religious purposes. I don't have any interest in the medical side except to find it a little disturbing that God would prescribe a religious procedure that is physically harmful for the recipient of the procedure. That is why I would tend to hope that males in the Old Covenant could avoid apparent harm to the soul, being "destroyed out of his people", without doing something that causes harm to the body.
  13. 3DOP


    Religious circumcision is the argument used for pedobaptism by many pedobaptists. Col. 1 or 2. It just seems to us like many people blow off the idea that there could ever be some some good reason for an infant having a religious ceremony that keeps it from harm (circumcision), or imparts benefit (baptism). We agree that religious circumcision is no longer efficacious. Under the Old Covenant, was it okay to be uncircumcised until you were old enough to choose? Was it good or bad for Jewish parents before Christ to choose, in disregard for health reasons, to circumcise the baby boys? Tuesday is the Feast of the Circumcision in the Catholic Church, where, according to the Catholic faith, our Lord shed enough blood to satisfy for our sins. There are other reasons for more blood...all attributable to the exceeding love of God for sinners. A belated Merry Christmas to all. Rory
  14. 3DOP

    Aliens...what if

    Are they the same species as God like Mormons are? If not...what are they? If not they are inferior. If they are the same species...it seems hard to call them aliens.
  15. 3DOP

    The VERY Respectful Temple Poll

    Circumstances dictate exemptions? Like ill health, emergencies where someone near death needs submerged beneath a hole in the ice, or where there is not enough water available for immersion? Do you guys really get concerned that the baptism is invalidated if someone's hair stays dry? Circumstances dictating exemptions is how the Catholic Church reasoned its way to allowing that immersion CAN NOT be absolutely necessary for a merely valid baptism, even if immersion more perfectly symbolizes the event.