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About cinepro

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    It's pronounced "cinepro"

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  1. Since those marriages were illegal, they weren't legally his "wives." So you must be referring to a spiritual classification, based on Joseph having been a Prophet, therefore God must have been okay with it. Can you see how that gets to be a bit...circular? If Bill Johnson went out and "married' several women, but kept it a secret and didn't tell his first (legal) wife, and didn't live with them or support them, I'm assuming we'd frown on that as being immoral (and inconsiderate of the first wife). Some might even call it "cheating." If Bill Johnson then claims that it's okay because he had a dream where God gave him the power to do this, and his best friend Carl performed a marriage ceremony in the woods behind his house, does that make everything okay? If you believe Bill Johnson is a prophet it does. If you don't, then it's still cheating, no matter how thin you slice it. You: Bill, I know what you're doing with Carla, and your wife Jane would not be happy about it. You should stop. Bill: But you don't understand. God gave me special powers where I can have a special, secret relationship with Carla and she's also considered my "wife." You: Have you told Jane? Bill: Of course not. I'm not stupid. But to make matters more complicated, what if the fact that Bill Johnson did this is used as a data point in trying to determine whether or not he is a prophet? If you don't have that belief going in, can you see how the whole situation gets real hinky real quick? It's easy to see why people who have a firm belief in Joseph Smith's prophetic mantle are able to "put it on the shelf" (or even support it), but as far as getting people who don't have that testimony to see him as a prophet, it's a PR disaster. The only way to sell it is to either hide it, or misrepresent it.
  2. Here's another video that comes to mind when I hear Church leaders implore us to "stay in the boat":
  3. I agree. While I do think it's a good thing that they are finally acknowledging how severe the problem is, it's extremely disappointing if this is the best way they can deal with it. The better boat analogy is the scene in Jaws where the happy shark-hunters are confidently searching for the shark so they can kill it. But after a brief sighting of the beast, Chief Brody realizes the situation they are in and can only say "You're gonna need a bigger boat." Well Elder Renlund, if that talk is indicative of the quality of the "boat", then I can only say (speaking on behalf of the doubters), you're gonna need a better boat.
  4. I have to admit, I'm shocked by how quickly the ex-Mormon community adopted the "gay teen suicide epidemic" narrative, and how tightly they hold to it. I mean, I know why they do it, but for a group that can often be overly smug and self-assured in their rationality, they sure foster a blind spot on this issue and it's one tenet of faith that they deem off-limits to questioning.
  5. The challenge was originally issued on 1/7. I hadn't scrolled down far enough to see the original post.
  6. In the Church's recent press release regarding the Temple changes, they made the following claim: This claim appeared to pique Bill Reel's curiousity, as nothing seemed to come to mind that would support such a claim. In the pursuit of knowledge, Bill issued a reward to anyone who could provide quotes supporting the claim. Others pitched in and the bounty climbed to $150. On January 12, Here is how Bill worded the challenge: Interestingly, today it was announced that the challenge has been met and the reward awarded! Here are the quotes that were found: Congratulations to "Kevin Owens", the winner, and thank you to Bill for issuing the challenge. Whether or not Bill actually expected the challenge to be met, I think it was an interesting exercise (and I suspect the writers of the press release themselves might be surprised to see that actual quotes were found...)
  7. cinepro

    Status of Discovery in Denson Lawsuit

    Can you give us just a quick paraphrase of what they say? I don't have 3.5 hours right now.
  8. cinepro

    Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

    The Temple has been massively changed several times over the decades, with a notable change being made in 1990. Where can I find an "explanation" from the Lord for the changes that were made then?
  9. cinepro


    If we're trying to look at this fairly, I think that's the best definition. Since discussing "anti-Mormon" is going to obviously lead to some impassioned feelings around here, let's talk about other things that people might be "anti." For example, I would consider myself "anti-Scientologist." I'm not ashamed of it. I don't deny it. I think the world would be a better place without Scientology. I think at best it is a benign fraud and expensive waste of time, and at worst extremely harmful. Now, I'm also respectful of peoples' freedom to choose to spend their time and money how they wish (to a degree), and don't advocate using the force of government to persecute Scientologists. And I don't spend my time or money advocating against the CoS. But if a friend or loved one were considering getting involved with the group, I would try to talk them out of it. And if the CoS filed for bankruptcy tomorrow and dissolved, I would think that was a great thing and the world was a better place. So I would say anyone who feels the same way about the CoJCoLdS is an "anti-Mormon." And I don't know why anyone who felt that way would be reluctant to use that label. Maybe anti-Mormons need to do get the word out that you can be an anti-Mormon without lying or being a jerk. But that's a PR problem, and PR problems can be solved.
  10. If the ultimate argument/defense is going to be "facts don't care about your feelings", I'm not sure that's a path that believers should go down.
  11. cinepro

    How was two hour church?

    I think everyone was confused about what the course of study is supposed to be for Sunday School. The teacher posed most questions as "What did you think when you read xyz during your personal study...?" and it was mostly blank stares from the class.
  12. cinepro

    History of the Satanic Panic

    Yeah, that was all so silly. Until my evangelical aunt gave my mom a book about occultism in Star Wars. Then it stopped being funny.
  13. cinepro

    New missions and eliminating others

    Wow. I served in two missions, and now they're both gone
  14. cinepro

    Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

    That's not how it works. If the list is "A List of Things Bill Reel Got Right", then that's something he got right. Sure, if Bill had claimed that an angel had appeared to him and that's where he got the info, then we can say that he got it right but the angel isn't the most likely explanation since people had been predicting (and hoping for it) for a long time. But he did make a list and that was one he got right. FWIW, I don't even think Bill was putting much stock into the "list." It's not like he's trying to be considered a prophet or anything. It was just a handy reference for all the rumors going around.