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About rongo

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    Brings Forth Plants
  • Birthday 07/19/1975

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    Baseball, basketball, football (especially college); LDS Church history; the Gospel; reading

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  1. Is Mormonism Dying?

    I've done that before. You order the records, and then transfer them to their actual ward. All it does is break the "chain of custody" showing the most recent ward. It will show your ward, when in fact the record was only there for a minute. It's like laundering money through offshore banks in the Cayman Islands . . . If you send the address and info to that ward's clerk, they will usually . . . not order the records. You have to do it yourself, as you indicated.
  2. Home/Visiting Teaching to be discontinued

    That would be conventional wisdom, wouldn't it? Sometimes it seems that the decision is already made, regardless of the findings and experience of the pilot program. I think at a basic level, the thought is "Let's test drive this, and see how it does," but I don't see any evidence of scrapping the idea due to the pilot program. Do you remember what they were? I would find that very interesting. I wouldn't see it as jettisoning "return and report," so much as it would be getting rid of "calling the district leader and repeating a string of numbers" (I'm assuming you served roughly when I did --- mid 1990s). I never considered that to really be the spirit or the letter of "return and report."
  3. I absolutely would, if it were commanded. Without hesitation.
  4. Home/Visiting Teaching to be discontinued

    I don't think there is a direct correlation between pilot program success and eventual implementation in the Church. Not in my experience, anyway. I wonder if the changes include eliminating reporting? That, to me, would be a lot more monumental than a name change (in favor of a buzzword-sounding direction) or loosening of "accepted activities" (actual visits with lessons, actual visits period, texting, calling, writing a note, doing activities with, etc.). Eliminating reporting would represent a major shift in the Church's historical direction in favor of "teach correct principles and let them govern themselves." It's like the buzzword-named "Just Serve" (sorry, Rain! ). You would think the focus would be on getting members to "just serve," but you would be wrong. The Church emphasizes service that is trackable and brings attention to the Church --- kind of the opposite of "verily I say unto you, they have their reward." I think of President Packer's counsel in 1990 that the most important things are not able to be reported on at all. He mentioned this in response to pressure to create a General Board on the Family, coupled with adding reporting on parent PPIs with children, family prayer and scripture study frequency, etc. He said "The very thought sends chills of horror down my spine!", and said that the most important things should not be tracked or reported. Perhaps home/visiting teaching belongs in this boat, but I would be stunned if the current Church administration went in that direction. Hope springs eternal, though.
  5. Thoughts Re: "Veils"

    I suppose, to those who insist on viewing it this way. I believe for myself that it's actually a reward and a privilege for women in the temple, not a lower standard of requirements.
  6. Thoughts Re: "Veils"

    According to the explanation I related, because the men are not in the presence of God (or at least, are conditionally so), while the women are unconditionally in the presence of God. At that point in the endowment. Again, I agree with the point of view that it has nothing to do with "women needing a veil" and "men don't need one." I think something completely different is being taught and emphasized there.
  7. Thoughts Re: "Veils"

    Yes. Symbollically, of course. I don't want to go in greater depth, but there is a context to that. That is, there is a specific time and place when women veil their faces. There is also another instance where both men and women remove their shoes, which is another clear symbol for preparation to be in the presence of God. I, personally, really do think this is closer to the meaning, and don't think it really comes down to it being an archaic relic from ancient (or not so ancient) patriarchy.
  8. Thoughts Re: "Veils"

    The Ogden temple president explained to my grandparents (who worked in that temple for decades) long ago that women are symbolically in the presence of God in a way that men are not (or at least, men's being in his presence is conditional, whereas women's is not). This correlates with other areas in the temple where women receive unconditional promises where men receive conditional ones. A much different perspective than veils being a relic of male chauvenism or patriarchy, no?
  9. Completely agree. This approach and mindset over the decades is why we're in the situation we're in right now with people, information, concerns, and feelings of betrayal and deception. The first step in getting out of the hole is to stop digging. Then, there are good-better-best ways to climb out of the hole, but they don't matter if you keep digging.
  10. I don't think anyone is arguing for a high "level of sophistication." Just simply knowing or having heard of issues would be enough. It would be so much better than the default setting right now, where most members and missionaries have never heard of any of these. I think knowing at a very basic level about these things (not highly sophisticated) would have a huge positive influence. That doesn't require sectarian seminary training at all.
  11. The Spirit is the most important, but I don't think being well-prepared and aware and having/inviting the Spirit are mutually exclusive. That's actually best on the good-better-best continuum.
  12. LOL. I think I actually read "Mormonism and Masonry," by Cecil McGavin, from the mission home. I'll bet that was the same book in your mission president's library. The very first home that let us in knocking on doors as a greenie in northern German was a Mason. While my German wasn't yet good enough to know most of what was going on, I did figure out that Freimauer was Mason, since "Mauer" is wall, and "frei" is free. Free+wall = freemason. Yeah, acting like "You don't need to know about that" is not a good way to keep people from wondering.
  13. I fully agree. I think missions are an excellent opportunity to teach them about these things in a faithful atmosphere and way. My second mission president allowed me to borrow all sorts of books from the mission home that weren't in the missionary library. I appreciated that, because I had read the standard works a zillion times already by the end of my mission.
  14. His real passion is the complicated issues of the Church, and he isn't searching for truth or meaning as it concerns God or Christ. He was relishing his opportunity to finally be able to discuss at length these things. The sister missionaries are covering everything on the basics end, and their next appointment is tomorrow night . . .
  15. I agree. I don't really see a way to do this in a "mission conference" type setting, given that they are all over the map in terms of preparation, exposure, and background. No matter how it's done, it could end up planting doubts where none exist because of prior experience. True, but I think included in this mandate is intelligently discussing aspects of the Restoration of interest or concern to those the missionaries teach.