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Bernard Gui

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Everything posted by Bernard Gui

  1. A pretty tall order, IMO. As my uncle used to say, “If we had some ham we could have ham and eggs, but we don’t have any eggs.”
  2. Well, could you smile while saying it?
  3. I have heard sentiments like this many times. I don't think the notion of the Trinity is stupid, by the way. I simply don't understand the explanations I have been given. Here's a good example of what I have heard that the mystery is the beauty.
  4. Indeed! I have often asked the questions, "When Jesus showed his resurrected body to his apostles and others, they touched it and verified it was physical and it was his. Did he leave it on earth when he ascended? When he appears again, will it be with that same body? Where is that body now? If we were to see him, what would we see? Does his body exist in time and space? If so, where?" LDS scriptures and teachings answer those questions satisfactorily for me. I would like to hear someone else's opinions.
  5. So, that truly is the beauty of it?
  6. So, some Trinitarians would be ok with the Son having a visual physical body, but the Father being a visually and physically separate person of Spirit, whatever Spirit might be? That appears to make them of two different substances and persons, not one. To me, two persons means one is here and one is there, temporally and physically. Three persons means there is another one over yonder, but I have been told I do not understand the concept of “person.” Yet I noticed 3DOP likes what you said. I interpret that to mean you get it. This is a new one for me because after decades of speaking with Trinitarians of many stripes trying unsuccessfully to grasp what they believe and that what Joseph saw was a heretical deception, I have consistently been told not only that I was wrong but mortal sinfully wrong. It’s a puzzlement. Or maybe that is the beauty of it.
  7. Could you clarify something for me? Are you saying non-LDS Christians are OK with the Father and Son being separate physical beings as per the First Vision? Not that they believe Joseph, but that his description of them was theologically correct?
  8. Maybe they cannot be understood. As one once famously said, “That’s the beauty of it.”
  9. I apologize that I was curt with you. I thought you were being sarcastic about the way we pray, but I misunderstood. I think we were talking about different scriptures when you asked about varying interpretations. I was talking about those I quoted from 3 Nephi. They speak quite plainly to me. I quoted the Article of Faith to show you where I stand, which is with the instructions Jesus gave to the Nephites when he came to them. These instructions followed his giving them the example of how to pray that we all call the Lord’s Prayer. I’m not aware of many commandments given repeatedly and emphatically like this in such a short time. It must be important. This is why we as a Church don’t formally pray to Jesus. What people do in privacy is up to them. The Church does not ferret out our personal praying practices. I have never been asked by an authority if I pray to Jesus. I strongly doubt I ever would be asked. Who cares if I do? In the meantime, I want to do as the Savior instructed. Also, as I said according to our AoF, we believe everyone has the right to worship and pray however or to whomever they wish. For convenience, here are the instructions to the Nephites. Note the use of the word always. We can read the scriptures and then decide what we want to do.
  10. Well, HJW, you misconstrued my comments.
  11. No. You honestly thought Mormons could be sanctioned or punished for praying to Jesus? I’m surprised. Why not? I believe Jesus repeatedly gave his instructions in 3 Nephi to pray to the Father in his name for significant reasons. I don’ t believe doing so contradicts or dishonors the Bible. Is there a place in the Bible where Jesus commands his people to pray to him?. Is this what you might have in mind? Not at all. Just defending our faiths.
  12. You answered your own question. You’ve been around here a long time. Surely you knew the answer when you asked it? NoI don’t have to admit that. After all, this is an LDS discussion group and our scriptures include the Book of Mormon. The scriptures I cited are explicit and very easy to understand. I pray to the Father in the name of the Son, and I say the Lord’s Prayer once in a while. It’s quite beautiful. Moreover, I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. And to pray however, wherever, or to whomever they may.
  13. Forbidden? How would that be enforced? Temple recommend? How would a bishop know? It’s not a recommend question. At Church? Probably the bishop would talk to the person and teach him/her the correct doctrine and practice. Praying to the Father in the name of Jesus is what he asked us to do. Why would we want not to obey him?
  14. They were doing what he commanded them to do. I think by then they knew the difference between the Father and the Son.
  15. That’s the worst thing for a person in addiction and those who love him/her to hear. No healing will happen if that is believed.
  16. Here’s a summary of biblical material explained further in the Book of Mormon or not found in the Bible. Bernard Gui: The purpose, significance, universality, covenant, and mode of baptism.  A more comprehensive understanding of the resurrection. A fuller understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The pre-mortal foundation, the significance, and the role of the Holy Priesthood after the order of the Son of God. A confirmation that Jesus organized a church in the Old World. The requirements for authority in administering the gospel. The role of the 12 Apostles in the final judgment. The pre-mortal nature of Christ. The pre-mortal existence of man. The urgency, benefits, and significance of the Fall of Adam.  The restoration of Israel and gathering of the Jews.  A record of the other sheep. A promise that more records will come forth.  A rationale for plural marriage. The significance of the descendants of Joseph of Egypt.  The role the Lehites will play in the end times.  The Lehite “land of promise” covenant also pertains to us today.  The explanations of the justice and mercy and mercy of God. The imperative of the opposition of good and evil in the Plan of Salvation.  The primacy of agency.  Foreordination. The extraordinary status of the Apostle John. John the Baptist was not the first to perform baptisms for repentance.  The role of Gentiles in the end times and the gathering of Israel. JAHS: Revelation from God to prophets other than those in the Bible. Meerkat: The role of the Holy Ghost confirming true religion and other facts. Kevin Christensen: Much more information on life after death The notion that specific plain and precious things were missing. (1 Nephi 13, specifying covenants and specific teachings, such as that "the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father"), the means by which they were lost, and additional texts appearing via then gentiles after the appearance of the Book of Mormon besides the Book of Mormon by which they will be restored and confirmed. A method for evaluating competing paradigms that is not completely paradigm dependent. Alma 32. A notably distinct theory of the Atonement, as noted by Lorin K. Hansen. (Gethsemane and Calvary) Clark Gobel: It's worth noting again that we're missing the 116 pages (which Don Bradley suggests might be of significant length in terms of percentage of the whole - perhaps as much as half). We're also missing the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. So there's a lot left to be revealed.  Stemelbow The notion that pacifism is preferred to national wars and pride is a good one.  The teachings on racism are a bad thing. (Opposed by Okrahomer) The notion that leaders in any society should lead by serving is a good teaching.  The notion that magical events will save special people while destroying others is a bad thing.  Longview: The BoM provides an amazing array of perspectives on the Biblical account of what transpired in the Garden of Eden. Many insights can be derived: Two commandments given by God both of which could not be obeyed (mutually exclusive, only one or the other could be kept). One is to keep away from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (do not even touch it). The other is to be fruitful and multiply. God needed to remove Himself from undue influence that would cause Adam/Eve to favor one choice over the other. Why would God create a pristine Garden of Eden that was a place of no death and functioned like Utopia? Why would God place both trees that could cause problems? Did not God have the power of creating obedient and wise beings that would have childlike purity without a hint of malice? Most of the christian world believe that humans born into the world began their existence in the mother's womb (both body and spirit). The BoM teach that we were spirit beings before the Creation. This is a major distinction that helps us to understand the purpose of the Garden of Eden and how it was structured. The BoM gives us the "Big Picture" in describing the Plan of Happiness. It describes what transpired in the Pre-Existence and how the War in Heaven started. The importance of the Fall and the necessity for a Savior to provide the Atonement that enables the Plan of Happiness to be put into operation. Rodheadlee: The Book of Mormon clarifies the position of the United States, North America and the new world in the latter days.  CA Steve: (Quoted A Campbell 1831, italicized words challenged by TKV) “[It] decides all the great controversies - infant baptism, ordination, the trinity, regeneration, repentance, justification, the fall of man, the atonement, transubstantiation, fasting, penance, church government, religious experience, the call to the ministry, the general resurrection, eternal punishment, who may baptize, and even the question of freemasonry, republican government, and the rights of man” Any more thoughts?
  17. Please don’t derail. Start your own thread to beat this dead horse some more, please.
  18. Check out the compiled list below and explain how the items on it were plagiarized.
  19. I think it refers to those in addiction....they are suffering from a disease, not a lack of moral strength.
  20. The extraordinary status of the Apostle John. John the Baptist was not the first to perform baptisms for repentance. The role of Gentiles in the end times and the gathering of Israel.
  21. That was a one time event because they were in his physical presence. Several times they prayed to him in this chapter. Each time he then separated himself from them and he prayed to the Father for them. He also prayed to the Father for them in chapter 17. I think that is instructive. At all other times, they prayed to to the Father in the name of Jesus. He said, When he was not with them, they prayed to the Father in his name:
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