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Danzo

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  1. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    Our ward did a fifth Sunday lesson on it a little less than a year ago.
  2. Quick tip. Saying that someone's lawyer agrees with them doesn't really help the argument. The Lawyer is paid to agree with, and advocate for their client. That is the nature of the client attorney relationship.
  3. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    Isn't this thread supposed to be about the messenger? But I agree, time should be spent disqualifying the message as well.
  4. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    I think you bring up what has been bothering most about brother Young and his acolytes. The don't acknowledge that people can or should disagree with them. There is only one valid opinion. If I don't agree with them, it must be because I support child abuse, or that I can't think for my self. They don't think there can be a benefit to having confidential interviews with children (Or I suspect) with anyone. Even though i disagree with Abulafia, I respect that she is at least honest about her belief that confidential interviews don't have a value. I, on the other hand have seen the value of confidential interviews, both my own and of those that I am close to (one in particular who was a victim of child sexual abuse). These interviews could not have been beneficial the way that they were, if they weren't confidential. These benefits, in my opinion far outweigh what little risks there of of ecclesiastical abuse. It would be nice for Brother Young to at least acknowledge that there is an opposing opinion to theirs and that it doesn't mean that we favor child abuse.
  5. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    Life is full of risks.
  6. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Abusers can be children or adults. So if you really want to be safe, you would have to restrict one on one with anyone at any time. Especially with parents, who are a significant percentage of abusers. Spouses should never be alone with each other as well since spousal abuse is also significant. I don't want my children to have to live that way.
  7. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    I know it can be scary, but don't think "trust no one" is a healthy message to send to our children.
  8. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    Not letting your children have alone time with abusers is always good advice, and I wholeheartedly recommend it. However, if they are not abusers there should be less reason for concern.
  9. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    Are you aware of any data that suggests child abuse rates are lower as a result of two deep policies? I really don't believe that it is effective or desirable to build a bubble around our children. We can't shield them forever from harmful people or situations. A child being alone with an adult is a healthy, normal interaction with 99% of adults. I certainly benefited growing up in my interactions with other adults, often one on one, or in small groups. I have interacted with minors on a one on one basis many times. It did not put any of the minors I interacted with in any danger. My children have interacted with adults as well. Interacting with people (adults or children) I believe is very healthy. You learn what is normal so you can better recognize when things are off. There is nothing magical or mystical about segregating people by above 18 and below 18. People below 18 are just as capable of being good (or abusive) as people over 18. If not careful we can, in our zeal to protect our children keep them from living.
  10. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    I am suggesting that abusers will find a way to be alone with a child, no matter what rule is in place. These types of people are not restrained by rules.
  11. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    I really don't think it protects children. I haven't seen any evidence that the child abuse rate in the US has fallen any due to two deep leadership requirements. It does protect adults and the institution from liability, which I believe is its true purpose. I don't think most adults, when they are in the presence of minor children feel an increased desire to abuse children, just because they are alone with them. Those adults who are inclined toward child abuse aren't usually letting rules like two deep leadership get in the way of their evil.
  12. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    If the recording shuts ends when Sam leaves, it would seem more likely that Sam, or one of his party is recording. If the recording continues after he leaves it seems more likely that it was a member of the high council doing the recording.
  13. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    I best guess is that it was produced around 2010 ish.
  14. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    you know this. how? Cause I have seen the training video . . . Just saying.
  15. Danzo

    Sam Young is Excommunicated

    Here is a recent example of can happen to children placed in government care https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/crime/2018/05/01/lawsuit-dhs-covered-up-ignored-keizer-couples-abuse-foster-children/569017002/ "Because of Oregon Department of Human Services' ignorance and inadequate investigations, three children were abused for years in a filthy Keizer foster home, according to a $100 million civil rights lawsuit filed in federal court. The abuse became so severe, one foster child, a 10-month-old girl, was hospitalized with fractures in all four of her limbs. Another child suffered years of sexual abuse at the hands of her foster parent. The man responsible for the abuse, Casey Miller, is in prison serving a 30-year sentence for repeatedly sodomizing the girl." Here is a recent audit of our state's child welfare system https://sos.oregon.gov/audits/Documents/2018-05.pdf "DHS and Child Welfare struggle with chronic and systemic management shortcomings that have a detrimental effect on the agency’s ability to protect child safety. Management has failed to address a work culture of blame and distrust, plan adequately for costly initiatives, address the root causes of systemic issues, use data to inform key decisions, and promote lasting program improvements. As a result, the child welfare system, which includes the foster care program, is disorganized, inconsistent, and high risk for the children it serves." A summary of the audit https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-child-welfare-audit-secretary-state/
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