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  2. Recalls and unusual fixes where we need special parts or something under warranty, we go to the dealer; otherwise it is a general shop that is owned and run by a family my husband grew up with. He gets to catch up friends along with getting the car fixed. And I like knowing the car isn't in the hands of strangers.
  3. Dear Smart people, Do you need to take your car to a dealer to be serviced? That is, if your car is a Ford as mine is do you need to take your car to A Ford Service station to be serviced? I had assumed that due to the electronic equipment in the car that one needed special proprietary equipment and computer programs to diagnose and fix specific models. As well specific models have different warranties and recalls so each car brand has a lot of information that needs to be tracked. If you have a late model car, do you take your car to the dealer or a regular garage? Do you think taking the car to a dealer makes a difference? i had my tires changed recently and the garage asked why I never had my car serviced. I say ‘I do. I take my car to the dealer’. The owner of the garage was really annoyed which I thought was strange. What do you think?
  4. Yeah thanks everyone I am enjoying the response to the thread. We have looked at different aspects of seeing. Just to concentrate on visions for a moment it would seem that a major dividing line is visions that are self apparent and those that like in the scriptures need an interpretation. Also are visions recorded in heaven? Nephi had the same vision as his father. There are other examples of the same vision being given out.
  5. Your comment made me want to read the original talk. Something that I probably should have done the first time. I just missed the link to his talk. And actually this was a thread I was only lurking in and not intending to comment. I do think the part quoted that has been discussed is poorly worded. But I should have tried to read the whole talk to give it more context. I apologize for that. It is not news to anyone that the Church thinks marriage should only be between one man and one woman. And it is not news to anyone that the church doesn't think that gay marriage is real in the sight of God. I don't have any problem with the Church holding either belief. And I don't try and change the Church's position.
  6. Anyone extrapolating from polygynous women have higher rates of depression to the harem caused higher level of depression in women in general is ignoring imo the fact that depression leads to less interest in sex (and likely less sex initiated by the husband if there are wives around interested or even fighting for his attention and depression is likely to lead to a woman looking less attractive due to not caring as much, etc) and making it harder to care for one's children (given competition for resources assuming the children will get as good as care as the wives who are able to more easily able to care for their own is unrealistic imo). Any chance your stepson's appointment was on April 1st?
  7. They are certainly "real experiences" just like pain from an amputated limb is "real pain"! Dreams are real experiences and can change our lives! So what's the difference?
  8. Just watch the video. The whole point is the relationship between hallucinations and "reality" and how it can be hard to define one from the other. Why not watch it?? Why speculate what it says? Just watch the dang thing!
  9. Just that what this guy is saying appears to me to be that we hallucinate rather than see something real and tangible. Yet everyone feels JS saw the real thing or actual personages. Not a hallucination.
  10. I actually had heard that theory, it's quite interesting. Although for me, I wouldn't say that 'mushroom experiences' weren't real. But I see what you mean.
  11. I'm always envious of people that have these experiences. I've never had anything. I keep thinking the heavens are closed to me. And I must not fully believe anything is out there, and maybe if I did, I might get something. My niece has told me and others that we mortals need to speak out loudly to Spirit and bring them to us sometimes. They are busy up there, lol. She said there are signs everywhere we just need to pay attention and not discount them. So your friends might like to hear that story now, I think people are more open to it the older they/we get. I love watching NDE's and watching readings, but try to avoid things that appear to be fake.
  12. It's interesting that you started this thread. The Satan in the temple thread reminded me of a vision I had while living in the shadow of a temple. I was going to share it but then I remembered I was mocked by my friends when I shared it with them. They were not members of the church but they were close friends and still are. So I decided to keep my mouth shut.
  13. I think it could have been magic mushrooms, or datura. People in his day used these for spiritual experiences with God. So neither conman or real, possibly. http://www.mormonthink.com/files/restoration-sacred-mushroom.pdf
  14. The word I use is RENDER. The human body (the body-mind, mind-body) RENDERS signals received according to the capacity and programming they already have. (A fly body renders signal differently than a dog body than a human body, etc; also programming that nuances capacity varies from human to human). That rendering is highly--scratch that--EXCLUSIVELY personal and NO ONE shares your world, NO ONE. You have ONLY your own rendering. You aren't 'seeing' objects or 'hearing' sounds, you are rendering signal/info bits into a landscape that is already mixed/virtual/tardis reality. 'Seeing' and 'hearing' is not OUT THERE, it is 'IN HERE' in the neurons etc (not only the brain, but that's a big part of it). The signal/info bits do not tell you what it is . . . YOU tell the data/signal what IT is by your rendering capacity and choices i.e. programming. Traditional rendering choices are infected from person to person in a family and society (transmitted, passed down), so that's why it seems many of us share things, but if you talk with random people, you'll figure out that there is actually very little sharing. Everyone is on different paradigms, beliefs, stories, definitions, focuses, significances. For some people there's not even certain colors, etc, and some people 'see' sounds etc. Some people 'see' dead people (they're not dead, they are just unseeable in some capacities--and apparently well and easily seeable in other capacities). xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx As for what that means for Joseph Smith's experience, for me there are two choices. Either there was an experiential component for him on some level; or he just sat down and made up a big con. I find the latter zero compelling or probable for a variety of reasons. What his experience was and what it meant to him, he has shared with us. We can take or not. I honestly don't think a whole lot about Joseph Smith's engagement with GOD in the form it came to him; I'm all about figuring out mine.
  15. Its pretty much impossible to prove a vision to a skeptic. I love those people who dismiss near death experiences with the suggestion that there is no proof. What proof would they expect? Those who are having it somehow are able to take their iPhone along with them and take a selfie? In almost all these cases the experience whether visions or other things is for the benefit of the individual having them.
  16. My great grandfather wrote of his blue times when he'd take to his bed for who knows how long. In a barely past subsistence economy, that probably works, since field prep, sowing, and harvest are the only non-negotiables.
  17. My stepson's shrink explained it. Don't know where he found it. I just found this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22794315/ And this: https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-depression-could-save-your-life
  18. Haven't watched this, if it's saying what I think it is, then what about JS's vision, does he still get a pass?
  19. That is interesting, not sure! I am of the "depressed" = "deep rest" crowd. I also don't really buy into the 'disease' and 'healthy' dichotomy that we have for anything, the pathology of body states, but rather I say that we misunderstand the body deeply and its energy, structure, needs, materials, pathways, functions, features, and how to use and care for it/them. I think that depression is a secondary symptom, which means that its root cause could be different for different people, and a combination of factors at that. I do think that women don't rest enough, or honor their rhythms as to menstruation and childbearing (etc) and that that is part of the misunderstanding. So the body says, "REST NOW! DON'T MOVE!" and, because of our society's expectations, we think something is wrong, when really it is the body working quite well to keep us alive. (Men too, for their rhythms.) For me, my 'depression' is about magnesium deficiency, B12 deficiency, and just 'dirty cells' and an overworked liver in general (sugar, metals, on and on). So if I eat with my chemicals and my liver in mind, with a detox here and there, I'm fine. If I feel it coming on, I take steps. I guess we are derailing massively lol might be worth a Social Hall thread topic.
  20. I don't buy it. There were tons more women that needed to be up and moving in the world where depression would interfere with survival than ever lived in harems...and there was probably low birth rates and high infant or youth mortality in harems given the competition of who gets Dad's power. Hormones seem quite tied to depression. I suspect increased levels of depression is more side effect of hormones needed for fertility and the constant changing levels due to fertility cycles. PS: cfr please, I couldn't find anything googling.... PS: Men are generally under diagnosed with depression as they don't manifest in the same women do, tending to be more irritable and aggressive than sad and apathetic. ....
  21. Are our visions meant for just us or for other people to hear? I have a couple I have shared with close friends when I felt like they needed to hear it, but I wouldn't share them just to try to prove to others that there is a God or that the church is true because those who don't want to hear won't hear and would most likely call it a hallucination. Those experiences were meant to help me during my worst trials.
  22. Have you read up on the theory that holds depression is a survival strategy that arose in the harem? It accounts for women suffering three to one over men ... because depressed men got whipped to death before they could reproduce? Women in the harem, on the other hand, simply stayed in bed a lot and kept weird hours.
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