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  2. I don't give Heber C. Kimball's words any weight, but this is what he had to say on it as one of the twelve: “...ladies, in your family capacity. You have not any priesthood, only in connection with your husbands. You suppose that you receive the priesthood when you receive you endowments; but the priesthood is on your husbands.” - Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses Volume 5 pages 27-34
  3. "You won’t find this process spelled out in any manual. The Holy Ghost will be your personal tutor as you seek to understand what the Lord would have you know and do. This process is neither quick nor easy, but it is spiritually invigorating. " Ahh. So men can be told and tutored in many manuals and conference talks and in the scriptures etc. and they can use the Spirit as they read and listen to these resources and be spiritually invigorated, but women can only use inspiration from the Spirit. The same inspiration that members are told must agree with what priesthood leaders have said (or will say when women tell of those inspirations). And strangely women can have lessons about all of these things that are about the men in lessons, conference etc - they just can't get it about themselves.
  4. "Maybe." Can you see how hard it might be for some women to wait for a "maybe"? Some women hurt and struggle so much and the best that can be said is maybe in the next life she will get it? I don't see how that is implied. We are told "There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to women" and "How I yearn for you to understand that the restoration of the priesthood is just as relevant to you as a woman as it is to any man. Because the Melchizedek Priesthood has been restored, both covenant-keeping women and men have access to “all the spiritual blessings of the church”. As if there is some kind of equal footing with men now. What makes you think the next life will be any different when women are called Queens and Priestesses? Added power doesn't mean equal.
  5. We can reasonably verify that the Book of Mormon was dictated in modern times. But how do you "verify" that it "is not an ancient text" and furthermore that it is a "wholly modern text"? Seems like right out of the gate you are starting off with unverifiable claims.
  6. Today
  7. So couples that are incapable of having children are okay? So then……….. “WAIT NO! NOT LIKE THAT!” The odd thing is that all these promises that the Lord will work it out amount to non-scriptural folklore. They seem reasonable but are they accurate? A kind of “God is loving therefore God will………” It is comforting but is it accurate?
  8. This is for those who receive their second anointing. Generally reserved for elite members today. I believe this practice was done less secretly up until the 1930s-ish where those who received their second anointing were published in the Deseret News. That practice went underground per se and is not spoken about much today.
  9. I attended the open house, today. Even though it was cold and a over two hour wait for those without reservations, it was worth it to me. I hadn't been through that temple since 1978, when I was young. It is extraordinarily beautiful. I loved it and felt the almost five hour roundtrip drive and the long wait to get in was worth it. I think what an unusual building to have been built in the late 19th century in a rural county. Just loved it.
  10. Sorry if I was confusing. I’ve felt joy and peace in other religious services before.
  11. I just listened to David Archuleta's new song that he just released. The lyrics are all about his journey leaving the Church and how much he valued the love his mother showed over his journey Here are the lyrics that I think are very interesting. The song is much more impactful than the words. Here is a link to Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/6A7coJEq3Bh4g0hNjpjIHD. If you don't have Spotify, you can also find it on Apple Music, Pandora etc just type his name and the song title "Hell Together" I definitely identify with what he is saying here. I too was afraid of letting go of the version of me that I used to know while being in the Church. But I also realized that I would rather be in "Hell Together" with someone I love and can share this life with. And if the gates of heaven are closed to me, then it sounds like someone else's version of paradise. I think this is why many leave the Church. What the Church's teaches about the "Plan of Happiness" doesn't sound so happy for many. Not just the LGBT community, but for those that love friends/sons/daughters/fathers/ brothers/ that are LGBT. Not just LGBT people but as I read the thread on single members share many of the same disappointment of what the "Plan of Happiness" offers them both in this life and the next. "So let em close the gates If they don't like the way you're made Then they're not any better If Paradise is pressure Oh We'll go to Hell together " No matter what the reasons for leaving the Church are, whether it was the false narrative of Church history that we were taught our whole lives, the falling apart of Book of Mormon claims, or the Book of Abraham "written by the very hand of Abraham" claims or just not fitting into "The plan of Happiness", there are reasons why people have left to find a different path. We didn't leave because we no longer loved the company of the members and the many good things the Church does. You don't need to paint us all as hating the Church or attacking your faith, or leaving because we want to sin or are lazy learners, or whatever term is used to belittle our significants. You just have to decide if our criticism is an attack against the Church or us pointing out the things about the Church that make the tent much smaller than it needs to be and wish it was a bigger tent so that we too could fit. When @Analytics advocates for more financial transparency and a better effort to use the wealth of the Church on more humanitarian goals rather than a bigger portfolio, he is not attacking the Church. He is trying to get the Church to do better. Or @Teancum who corrects some of the false narrative that sometimes pops up. Or @Seeking Understanding and me, who wishes the Church had a better place for the LGBT community. They aren't attacks. They are things to consider to make the Church more honest, more accountable and a bigger tent.
  12. I think that humans have been multiplying just fine. The problem is they have been replenishing the plastic WAY too much !!!
  13. While, of course, I cannot possibly identify with being married, wanting children, and not getting them, there is something to be said, indeed, Rod @rodheadlee, for caring for all of God's creatures. Bless you and your wife, Sir.
  14. Can we even imagine the discomfort such changes will bring for those who are uncomfortable with even the changes already made?
  15. Spiritual Treasures https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/36nelson?lang=eng
  16. Maybe I'm a lot too far gone from the church than I thought. I understand how you'd feel that way, I never felt good anywhere but the LDS church even during my crisis of faith. I tried a couple of churches, but it didn't do anything for me. But I appreciate that you read it. I get the podcast's emails and that was sent to me today and I opened and read it. And the whole thing didn't resonate, but some really did.
  17. This is why I have always believe we will receive something similar, but not identical.
  18. We were not able to have children. We had 1 adopted without papers. His parents divorced and neither one wanted him so we took him. He was 16. Tony passed away quite some time ago. Other than that we take care of all the feral cats God sends our way. We have 4 permanent feral cats and up to 9 at breakfast time. I have seen adult cats lead their kittens to our place and drop them off for dinner time.
  19. Maybe it is something women will have to wait for. We are told in the temple we will someday become Kings and Queens and Priests and Priestesses, which implies that some sort of added power and authority will be given to women; more than they have now.
  20. I find most people who attack are actually wounded in some way. That doesn't mean we should open ourselves up to more attacks (even if the scriptures say turn the other cheek), but it does mean that sometimes we should have patience and love for them and see if we can understand them better to help them heal.
  21. I have heard much discussion of those that are missing over the years as I was in leadership or my husband was in leadership. Also a lot fo assumptions of why people were missing, but also a lot of plans to bring people back without knowing why. What my husband and I have both seen in ward councils was a lot of concerns, but not very good plan-making or planning to understand. I think people get overwhelmed with not only their own lives, but the many people who are missing and the others who have struggles of every kind. Then there are also worries like mentioned by someone above that they don't want to offend. You just never know if you should contact someone or not. whatever it is I think most of the time it's not that people don't care or don't miss those not attending anymore. It's more the road to good intentions...We need to learn to love those who have stayed when we haven't and those who have left when we haven't. And have some grace for the mistakes we both make.
  22. All this confirms is I and others possibly misread your opening post and believed you had feelings you didn’t. Consider you may be doing the same when you perceive bitterness where others are claiming they feel happiness.
  23. Calm did a good job on answering the other questions. I just wanted to add here. I know of very few women who want to be ordained with what men have in the way they have it. We have been told that women have power and authority etc. but somehow that is supposed to magically happen perhaps when you are 18, perhaps when you go to the temple etc, but there is no ordination for all these women and there are no responsibilities or blessing specifically with it that women have been told about other than for callings, but having a calling is not the same thing as being ordained to the priesthood. So many women would like to know more about this power and authority that compliments what the men have and they want to know how and why it is different than being ordained as men do. Until they understand that then talking about the priesthood that women hold? (do they hold it? what exactly is their relationship with it?) feels kind of like empty words to many. I get it that it was a joke for you and you were trying keep things lighter, but know that for many it may be making a wound because women are told so often that they shouldn't be so prideful as to aspire to holding the priesthood or having callings like a bishop when usually what they are really asking for is often misunderstood.
  24. I’d like to sincerely thank all who left my birthday party at 7, which started at 6, because it allowed those who remained to have a better time. Im not sure how this post is defendable, even considering all that followed. Sorry.
  25. I read the article and it was an interesting read. What jumped out at me the most was how little I could connect with the experiences of that sister and what move her and what she wanted to hear from church and what touched her soul. That isn't a judgement against any of what she said, just my personal observation. I cannot relate to finding peace or God in the kinds of worship services that she was so excited about. I cannot relate to her struggle to desire a religion where women can be in charge. That doesn't mean anything in particular but I found the realization intriguing. I don't think it's wrong for her to be excited or want those things, but to be honest some of it sounded just awful to me as an aspect of worship because that's not what speaks to me. That led me to wonder--rhetorically--how do we find unity when our wants, desires, and perspectives can be so different, even sometimes opposing of each other? I have no idea.
  26. "One may ask. Have you any feelings of hatred in your heart toward those who delight in persecuting and oppressing you? If they were hungry, and it was in my power, I would feed them; I desire not to bear malice or hatred towards any of the children of my heavenly Father. We must fight the battles of truth, with a desire for the ascendancy of truth, and not personal gratification, remembering that those who oppose us are of the same family, hereafter to be rewarded for the good or evil which they may do while in the flesh" (John H. Smith, JD 26:29) *My sentiments exactly*
  27. I had forgotten this, thanks for reminding me. I do remember the thread or at least one like it (mentioned and posted below) For some reason I can’t find it on the Mormonleaks website. I did find a previous 2017 conversation where you mentioned it on this board, but there was surprisingly no follow up…at least not that I saw. I must have been having a bad day or maybe that was the week I did my best to ignore the board (can’t remember when I actually tried it, I think I made it three days of not posting, lol). Do you have a link to the ML page or remember the provenance of the document at all? I am not claiming it is a fake, but it would be nice to know for sure it was not. (I am paranoid in this way about everything, not just something that looks odd for the Church ). https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69719-the-next-time-a-critic-gripes-re-churchs-business-interests-quote-quinn/?do=findComment&comment=1209765878
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