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  2. Pronoun help with Isaiah 53:10-11

    This, is a reference to the song of the lamb sung only by those who can learn it. How was Yeshua taken from prison and from judgement? Doesn't He tell us the Father had given all judgment unto Him?
  3. I wonder how Elder Ballard would interpret Elder Snow's words? "I think in the past there was a tendency to keep a lot of the records closed or at least not give access to information. But the world has changed in the last generation—with the access to information on the Internet, we can’t continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to be more open." https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/volume-14-number-3-2013/start-faith-conversation-elder-steven-e-snow I was more surprised they had a convert of 2 months being one of the interviewers! that's a dropkick into the deep end! I wonder how she got picked?
  4. No. I guess on that argument one should say that we ought to spend ten years going through the essays in the Encyclopedia.
  5. Great "Face to Face" broadcast last night featuring Elder Oaks and Elder Ballard, two of my favorite people. Sixteen questions, selected from some 4,000 sent in by young single adults, were answered by the two apostles. Here's a snippet from my news report about the event, specifically summarizing response to a question dealing with doubts: I thought it was interesting how Elder Oaks differentiates between questions and doubts, not the first time I have seen that important distinction drawn. Also Elder Ballard does not cop to hiding the truth. You can see a replay of the entire event. Follow the link at lds.org.
  6. I'm not sure that teaching Paul Reeve's version of this as a gospel doctrine lesson is a good thing, either (I think you or someone else indicated that all of her quotes came from this book). The topic is a lot bigger than just this, and if we're going to try to teach a rigorous version of this, it shouldn't just be one unique take. This isn't the only instance I'm aware of where a teacher reads someone's book and teaches exclusively from that. I don't think that's a good thing. What Reeve didn't address in his essay (he's supposed to be the actual author of the Gospel Topics essay), and which is the 800 pound gorilla in the living room, is: what do we do with prophetic statements when they are later disavowed? To cover the board with cards with quotes pounding away at how wrong past prophetic statements were is one thing (that appeared to be the lesson some are ga-ga over), but then what are the implications of that (both looking back and looking forward and in the present)? We still look at the pre-existence as impacting mortality in positive ways (Abraham 3, foreordination, Alma 13, etc.). What effect does disavowing statements that tie mortality to the pre-existence have on selectively using these scriptures for things that don't involve race? The Reeve-ian / Darius Gray approach also dismisses many other statements out of hand that undercut the argument that this was all Brigham Young's fault (e.g., Zebedee Coltrin, Abraham Smoot, etc.). Shouldn't these statements also be considered and factored in in an ostensible rigorous treatment? The gospel topics essays are not "shovel ready" for teaching or discussing --- they still have large holes and gaps. They are a start, and are better than nothing, but it would be even better if we had prophets, seers, and revelators weighing in and sharing their thoughts and insights on these significant issues. They are purposely silent, choosing to let third parties speak anonymously for them, and thus avoid getting dirtied by the fray (and possibly have to be "disavowed" in the future). I've been know for teaching "meaty" lessons when I have been a teacher, but I don't like this lesson as it has been represented. I think it pushed a specific agenda that is by no means settled, and in fact, has significant counterpoints that are purposely not considered.
  7. Resurrection Question

    It puts hair on your chest!
  8. Girls can now become Eagle Scouts?

    Very good. Now, going on strict academic sefinitions, i eould have to reverse words. I think the Church predominates leadership but does not subordinate women. I say the same for the Boy Scouts and the original mean g of "patriarchy" assuming it derives fron "patriarch". https://www.etymonline.com/word/patriarchy
  9. Today
  10. Resurrection Question

    Yeah, well, I figure once branded a criminal, I may as well run with it. Maybe I will take as my new screen handle Jean Valjean.
  11. Girls can now become Eagle Scouts?

    Right, it doesn't mean dominating. Subordinate just means less than, second class. I'm subordinate to my boss in the hierarchy, that doesn't mean my boss dominates me. Predominate means exert control or power, not necessarily the same connotation as dominate.
  12. Should BYU Drop its Football Program?

    There is no problem so difficult or complicated that it it cannot be resolved by killing everyone even remotely involved.
  13. The only manual, that I know of, that specifically refers to the essays is the Teaching the Saviors Way manual. Maybe seminary too. I have not seen them referenced in the Come Follow Me lessons but I don’t teach from them so... I know many are still unaware they exist.
  14. Resurrection Question

    Not sure why this conversation is happening on this thread. But maybe we could kill this tangent. Most of us have been thread banned at one time or another. And most of us have probably deserved it. The end
  15. Marriages in the Second Temple?

    Perhaps on your LDS days you may have been taught that the blessings to Abraham are the blessings to us all in the eternities. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132.29-50?lang=eng#p28 It is also understood that things like the sealing power for all are latter-day phenomenons. "To fulfill the covenant God made with Abraham—having particular reference to the fact that the literal seed of his body would be entitled to all of the blessings of the gospel (Abr. 2:10–11)—a number of specific and particular things must take place in the last days. The gospel must be restored, the priesthood must be conferred again upon man, the keys of the sealing power must be given again to mortals, Israel must be gathered, and the Holy Ghost must be poured out upon the Gentiles. All this has already taken place or is in process of fulfillment. See also Adoption; Gentile." https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/abraham-covenant-of.html?lang=eng&letter=A
  16. I didn't say the spirit just confirms what we personally agree with. But it does turn out, oddly enough, that the spirit's workings on man has certainly not proven to be foolproof...and as it turns out, in comparison to God we are all just a bundle of fools. I mentioned the deplorable manuals because often they teach things as true, like in history, but the stories have been shown to be not true. And yet, as it turns out, I'd go ahead and offer a splitting of hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beetle for anyone who thinks that some Mormon didn't walk away having felt the Spirit when the false stories were told. But as I suggested, and it seems you disagree with, the Spirit is felt by many people in many situations confirming, often, many contradicting "truths".
  17. Should BYU Drop its Football Program?

    You got to be kidding me. How does bombing another country, killing more young soldiers actually solve the problem?
  18. Cinepro, thanks for sharing! As a non-Ph.D-holder and a non-historian (but as a very interested Mormon), I am impressed with the courage of the teacher to talk about hard things.
  19. The Truth is available to all those that want it. We get to decide whether we accept what God has put out there as Truth.
  20. Shoot.,,If I had a gospel doctrine class like this in the past..I would have ate this up..interesting..loving history...and something real to discuss. Wow. I think this is great.
  21. I'm talking about truth as in something that's accurate. When it comes to historical data, truth isn't relative (though it is often difficult to discern). There doesn't seem to be any reason that the spirit could not be present during a discussion that focus's on the history of the priesthood ban. And I disagree the reason that we have different church's is because the Spirit just confirms what we personally agree with. That's not what the scriptures teach the Spirit does and it hasn't been my experience with the Spirit. But that's a different discussion than the OP I think.
  22. Define truth? The Spirit is present on an individual basis and its, of course, rather subjective. What's true to you and thus invites the Spirit may not be for another, which other might find truth in a competing thought or proposition and thus feel the Spirit when you do not. That's why, of course, we have different propositions held by Churches and groups who claim the Spirit's provenance.
  23. Resurrection Question

    Well at least a mod did not hijack your title.....I got that for mouthing off.
  24. Which is why the focus in a Sunday School lesson should not be on the history of the ban, as it were (too much that is unknown), but rather, on the revelation that ended it. As outlined in the lesson manual, that is the focus, or one of the foci.
  25. Why? I don't really understand what you are saying. The Spirit is present when truth is presented, for example.
  26. I'm not sure why the Spirit wouldn't be able to be present in that kind of a discussion. The Spirit is supposed to confirm truth. Learning more accurate information about a theological topic (such as the priesthood ban) seems like it would be right up the Spirit's alley.
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